[Vision2020] "Illegals" OK only if they fight in Iraq

Sat Jun 2 07:52:54 PDT 2007

One answer to Gary's question below is the federal government's I-9 form, which all new hires are required to fill out.  It cannot be completed without examination by the employer of a driver's license, state-issued ID card, or other "official" photo to establish identity, and a visa or permanent alien registration card and Social Security card to establish right to work.But these documents can be forged and look entirely authentic.  An employer who sees documents like those above that are, upon examination, authentic-looking, must consider him for employment.  He cannot say, "Gee, these look great, but my gut tells me, Mr. Valdez, that they're probably fake.  I know that happens a lot with you people."  If they look good, they work; it's as illegal to discriminate as it is to knowingly hire an undocumented worker.  Things aren't always as they seem, either way.keely> From: jampot at adelphia.net> To: mattd2107 at hotmail.com; godshatter at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 07:02:42 -0700> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "Illegals" OK only if they fight in Iraq> > On the surface Paul's suggestion seems reasonable but there are at least two > small problems with that approach. The first is that, once again, it takes a > national problem and forces the small business man to implement the > solution. (just like tax collection) How is the employer to make a > definitive call on the legality of any given potential new hire? There were > provisions in the Reagan Amnesty to make employers check legal status and > nothing came of it due to the difficulty in making that determination. How > are you checking the legal status of your employees currently, Matt?> > Which leads me directly to the second objection: the national I.D. card. > Matt, how would you or Paul prove to a new employer that you were legal > residents of the USA? Your drivers license? Your birth certificate? As I'm > sure that you are well aware these can be easily faked. To combat this a > national identification card would pretty much have to be implemented and my > objections of that are several. First, how long before those are faked and > we're right back at the starting gate. Two, the expense of getting one into > the hands of every single man, woman, and child in America would be enormous > if you consider that some type of background check would have to be done for > each individual. You can't do a less comprehensive check on the dumpy, > middle aged, white guy (me for instance) then you would on Jose, the twenty > something, brown skinned man with no permanent address. That would be > discriminatory. Three, the idea of produce on demand documents leaves me a > bit cold for what should be obvious reasons.> > Rather than going the route that places the greatest burden on the citizens > of our country, the government should do what is required to control the > boarders, be it by the construction of "The Wall," increased boarder guards, > (who do not have their hands tied with stupid restraints) Predator drones > and other enhanced security measures. Once the influx of illegal's is > controlled we can turn our attention to coping with the ones who are here > already.> > g> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>> To: <godshatter at yahoo.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 8:35 PM> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "Illegals" OK only if they fight in Iraq> > > > Paul,> >> > Great points.> >> > Matt> >> >> >>From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>> >>To: vision2020 at moscow.com> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "Illegals" OK only if they fight in Iraq> >>Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 19:33:09 -0700> >>> >>..not responding to your comments to Nick necessarily, just illegal> >>immigration in general...> >>> >>It takes two to tango. They wouldn't be coming over here if there weren't> >>places they could work under the table. Slap those companies with harsh> >>fines when they are caught and the influx would at least slow down.> >>> >>I would suggest that more of our ancestors didn't come into the country> >>illegally because it is harder to swim the Atlantic Ocean than it is to> >>swim the Rio Grande.> >>> >>Paul> >>> >>Matt Decker wrote:> >>>Nick,> >>>> >>>"Or is the only good illegal simply a dead illegal?"> >>>> >>>Wow ya have us evil coservatives paiged. Death to all "brownies".> >>>> >>>Or maybe just maybe, asking for people to abide by the rules like most of> >>>our ancestors, following the rules to gain entry into out great country,> >>>is what we thrive for. To establish a more thorough approach to "who"> >>>comes in and what good and bad they bring, is the more logical reasoning> >>>behind our racist minds. Maybe just maybe, trying to stop the easy access> >>>to drug traffic, high crime, terrorists that can easily come through "if"> >>>desired.> >>>> >>>But hey if your rocks get off by promoting all anti-conservative speals,> >>>toot your own horn at will.> >>>> >>>Matt> >>>> >>>> >>>>From: <nickgier at adelphia.net>> >>>>To: vision2020 at moscow.com> >>>>Subject: [Vision2020] "Illegals" OK only if they fight in Iraq> >>>>Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:03:49 -0700> >>>>> >>>>Greetings:> >>>>> >>>>This article was posted on NewWest. Attached is a cartoon on the subject> >>>>"Weren't the Pilgrims (and many others) illegal immigrants?"> >>>>> >>>>Nick Gier> >>>>> >>>>Guest Commentary> >>>>Is the Only Good Illegal a Dead Illegal?> >>>>By Contributing Writer, 5-30-07> >>>>> >>>>I read Quang Phamâ?Ts article, â?oFrom Illegal to Immortal â?" Marine> >>>>Sgt. Rafael Peraltaâ?� regarding a program on the History Channel. To> >>>>encapsulate his story mercilessly, Sgt. Rafael Peralta was a Mexican> >>>>native who came to this country illegally and became a Marine. He made a> >>>>heroic and ultimate sacrifice in Falloujah, and his last act saved the> >>>>lives of many other Marines.> >>>>> >>>>For the record, though I was against the Iraq War from the beginning, I> >>>>honor Sgt. Peralta and all those whoâ?Tve sacrificed in service to our> >>>>country. But what interests me about this story is not the Iraq> >>>>connection or what Peralta did there per se, but rather the reaction to> >>>>the tale by conservatives in general, and especially those who vilify> >>>>illegal immigrants.> >>>>> >>>>That Peralta entered this country illegally is not in dispute. As noted> >>>>by Clemenseando and others, â?oSgt. Peralta immigrated illegally to the> >>>>United States as a teenagerâ?¦. In high school, he was approached by a> >>>>Marine recruiter who told him to get in touch once he cleared up his> >>>>legal status.â?�> >>>>> >>>>Note that Peralta came to the U.S. alone â?" without his parents.> >>>>> >>>>Assuming that illegal immigration foes would have only grudging> >>>>admiration for a war hero who entered this country illegally, I looked> >>>>around the web for disparaging or equivocal comments.> >>>>> >>>>I found none. The anti-illegal crowd and other conservatives have > >>>>nothing> >>>>but praise for Peralta. Whatâ?Ts more, theyâ?Tve sanitized the story of> >>>>his immigration status.> >>>>Raoul Lowery Contreras, author of The Illegal Alien: A Dagger into the> >>>>Heart of America? says â?oPeralta graduated from Morse High School, > >>>>still> >>>>a Mexican citizen and worked to get his Permanent Resident Card, the> >>>>famous â?~Green Cardâ?T so he could join the Marines.â?�> >>>>> >>>>Oliver North writes that Peralta was â?oa Mexican immigrant who enlisted> >>>>in the Marine Corps the day he received his green card.â?�> >>>>> >>>>Deborah at My Little Corner of the World, a blog whose motto is> >>>>â?oCalling an illegal alien an â?~undocumented immigrantâ?T is like> >>>>calling a drug dealer an â?~unlicensed pharmacist,â?T â?� quotes a > >>>>Boston> >>>>Globe story that notes, â?oRafael Peralta was 25 years old, a Mexican> >>>>immigrant from San Diego who had enlisted in the Marines as soon as he> >>>>became a legal resident. â?�> >>>>> >>>>None of the press or blog reports tell precisely how Peralta got his> >>>>green card, but attorneys and former illegals relate that the way an> >>>>illegal alien â?oclears upâ?� his or her legal status is by paying a> >>>>bunch of money to a licenciado or notario who bribes people to forge> >>>>papers and commit perjury, thereby constructing a false history that> >>>>allows one to fit into a particular green card category.> >>>>> >>>>Writers such as those above glide blissfully past this inconvenient> >>>>truth, saying Peralta â?oworked to getâ?� his green card, or simply> >>>>â?oreceivedâ?� it, or somehow â?obecame a legal resident.â?�> >>>>> >>>>What is this supposed to mean? Do some actually believe an undocumented> >>>>person can perform some sort of â?oworkâ?� that will eventually earn > >>>>them> >>>>a green card? Do they think a green card will just show up in the mail > >>>>if> >>>>a person stands by the mailbox long enough? Are Jose and Maria, whoâ?Tve> >>>>lived here illegally for 10 years, still illegal only because they> >>>>havenâ?Tt â?oworkedâ?� to â?oclear upâ?� their status?> >>>>> >>>>Concomitantly, is the sin of having entered the country illegally> >>>>magically washed away once an immigrant figures out how to jump ahead of> >>>>everyone else to get a green card? Is the guilt of illegal entry and the> >>>>dishonesty required for an illegal to become legal absolved by a> >>>>demonstration of heroism?> >>>>> >>>>Or is the only good illegal simply a dead illegal?> >>>>> >>>>Gila Jones is a regular contributor to TheLiberalOC, an Orange County,> >>>>California blog.> >>>> >>>> >>>><< PilgrimsIllegal.doc >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>=======================================================> >>>>List services made available by First Step Internet,> >>>>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.> >>>>http://www.fsr.net> >>>>mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> >>>>=======================================================> >>>> >>>_________________________________________________________________> >>>Don't miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from> >>>Microsoft Office Live> >>>http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/> >>>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------> >>>> >>>=======================================================> >>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,  serving the> >>>communities of the Palouse since 1994. > >>>http://www.fsr.net> >>>                                 mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> >>>=======================================================> >>> >> >> >>=======================================================> >>  List services made available by First Step Internet,> >>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.> >>                http://www.fsr.net> >>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> >>=======================================================> >> > _________________________________________________________________> > PC Magazine's 2007 editors' choice for best Web mail-award-winning Windows> > Live Hotmail.> > http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507> >> >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------> > > > =======================================================> > List services made available by First Step Internet,> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.> >               http://www.fsr.net> >          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> > ======================================================= > > > =======================================================>  List services made available by First Step Internet, >  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   >                http://www.fsr.net                       >           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com> =======================================================
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