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One answer to Gary's question below is the federal government's I-9 form, which all new hires are required to fill out. It cannot be completed without examination by the employer of a driver's license, state-issued ID card, or other "official" photo to establish identity, and a visa or permanent alien registration card and Social Security card to establish right to work.<br><br>But these documents can be forged and look entirely authentic. An employer who sees documents like those above that are, upon examination, authentic-looking, must consider him for employment. He cannot say, "Gee, these look great, but my gut tells me, Mr. Valdez, that they're probably fake. I know that happens a lot with you people." If they look good, they work; it's as illegal to discriminate as it is to knowingly hire an undocumented worker. <br><br>Things aren't always as they seem, either way.<br><br>keely<br><br>> From: jampot@adelphia.net<br>> To: mattd2107@hotmail.com; godshatter@yahoo.com; vision2020@moscow.com<br>> Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 07:02:42 -0700<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "Illegals" OK only if they fight in Iraq<br>> <br>> On the surface Paul's suggestion seems reasonable but there are at least two <br>> small problems with that approach. The first is that, once again, it takes a <br>> national problem and forces the small business man to implement the <br>> solution. (just like tax collection) How is the employer to make a <br>> definitive call on the legality of any given potential new hire? There were <br>> provisions in the Reagan Amnesty to make employers check legal status and <br>> nothing came of it due to the difficulty in making that determination. How <br>> are you checking the legal status of your employees currently, Matt?<br>> <br>> Which leads me directly to the second objection: the national I.D. card. <br>> Matt, how would you or Paul prove to a new employer that you were legal <br>> residents of the USA? Your drivers license? Your birth certificate? As I'm <br>> sure that you are well aware these can be easily faked. To combat this a <br>> national identification card would pretty much have to be implemented and my <br>> objections of that are several. First, how long before those are faked and <br>> we're right back at the starting gate. Two, the expense of getting one into <br>> the hands of every single man, woman, and child in America would be enormous <br>> if you consider that some type of background check would have to be done for <br>> each individual. You can't do a less comprehensive check on the dumpy, <br>> middle aged, white guy (me for instance) then you would on Jose, the twenty <br>> something, brown skinned man with no permanent address. That would be <br>> discriminatory. Three, the idea of produce on demand documents leaves me a <br>> bit cold for what should be obvious reasons.<br>> <br>> Rather than going the route that places the greatest burden on the citizens <br>> of our country, the government should do what is required to control the <br>> boarders, be it by the construction of "The Wall," increased boarder guards, <br>> (who do not have their hands tied with stupid restraints) Predator drones <br>> and other enhanced security measures. Once the influx of illegal's is <br>> controlled we can turn our attention to coping with the ones who are here <br>> already.<br>> <br>> g<br>> ----- Original Message ----- <br>> From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107@hotmail.com><br>> To: <godshatter@yahoo.com>; <vision2020@moscow.com><br>> Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 8:35 PM<br>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "Illegals" OK only if they fight in Iraq<br>> <br>> <br>> > Paul,<br>> ><br>> > Great points.<br>> ><br>> > Matt<br>> ><br>> ><br>> >>From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter@yahoo.com><br>> >>To: vision2020@moscow.com<br>> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] "Illegals" OK only if they fight in Iraq<br>> >>Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 19:33:09 -0700<br>> >><br>> >>..not responding to your comments to Nick necessarily, just illegal<br>> >>immigration in general...<br>> >><br>> >>It takes two to tango. They wouldn't be coming over here if there weren't<br>> >>places they could work under the table. Slap those companies with harsh<br>> >>fines when they are caught and the influx would at least slow down.<br>> >><br>> >>I would suggest that more of our ancestors didn't come into the country<br>> >>illegally because it is harder to swim the Atlantic Ocean than it is to<br>> >>swim the Rio Grande.<br>> >><br>> >>Paul<br>> >><br>> >>Matt Decker wrote:<br>> >>>Nick,<br>> >>><br>> >>>"Or is the only good illegal simply a dead illegal?"<br>> >>><br>> >>>Wow ya have us evil coservatives paiged. Death to all "brownies".<br>> >>><br>> >>>Or maybe just maybe, asking for people to abide by the rules like most of<br>> >>>our ancestors, following the rules to gain entry into out great country,<br>> >>>is what we thrive for. To establish a more thorough approach to "who"<br>> >>>comes in and what good and bad they bring, is the more logical reasoning<br>> >>>behind our racist minds. Maybe just maybe, trying to stop the easy access<br>> >>>to drug traffic, high crime, terrorists that can easily come through "if"<br>> >>>desired.<br>> >>><br>> >>>But hey if your rocks get off by promoting all anti-conservative speals,<br>> >>>toot your own horn at will.<br>> >>><br>> >>>Matt<br>> >>><br>> >>><br>> >>>>From: <nickgier@adelphia.net><br>> >>>>To: vision2020@moscow.com<br>> >>>>Subject: [Vision2020] "Illegals" OK only if they fight in Iraq<br>> >>>>Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 14:03:49 -0700<br>> >>>><br>> >>>>Greetings:<br>> >>>><br>> >>>>This article was posted on NewWest. Attached is a cartoon on the subject<br>> >>>>"Weren't the Pilgrims (and many others) illegal immigrants?"<br>> >>>><br>> >>>>Nick Gier<br>> >>>><br>> >>>>Guest Commentary<br>> >>>>Is the Only Good Illegal a Dead Illegal?<br>> >>>>By Contributing Writer, 5-30-07<br>> >>>><br>> >>>>I read Quang Phamâ?Ts article, â?oFrom Illegal to Immortal â?" Marine<br>> >>>>Sgt. Rafael Peraltaâ?� regarding a program on the History Channel. To<br>> >>>>encapsulate his story mercilessly, Sgt. Rafael Peralta was a Mexican<br>> >>>>native who came to this country illegally and became a Marine. He made a<br>> >>>>heroic and ultimate sacrifice in Falloujah, and his last act saved the<br>> >>>>lives of many other Marines.<br>> >>>><br>> >>>>For the record, though I was against the Iraq War from the beginning, I<br>> >>>>honor Sgt. Peralta and all those whoâ?Tve sacrificed in service to our<br>> >>>>country. But what interests me about this story is not the Iraq<br>> >>>>connection or what Peralta did there per se, but rather the reaction to<br>> >>>>the tale by conservatives in general, and especially those who vilify<br>> >>>>illegal immigrants.<br>> >>>><br>> >>>>That Peralta entered this country illegally is not in dispute. As noted<br>> >>>>by Clemenseando and others, â?oSgt. Peralta immigrated illegally to the<br>> >>>>United States as a teenagerâ?¦. In high school, he was approached by a<br>> >>>>Marine recruiter who told him to get in touch once he cleared up his<br>> >>>>legal status.â?�<br>> >>>><br>> >>>>Note that Peralta came to the U.S. alone â?" without his parents.<br>> >>>><br>> >>>>Assuming that illegal immigration foes would have only grudging<br>> >>>>admiration for a war hero who entered this country illegally, I looked<br>> >>>>around the web for disparaging or equivocal comments.<br>> >>>><br>> >>>>I found none. The anti-illegal crowd and other conservatives have <br>> >>>>nothing<br>> >>>>but praise for Peralta. Whatâ?Ts more, theyâ?Tve sanitized the story of<br>> >>>>his immigration status.<br>> >>>>Raoul Lowery Contreras, author of The Illegal Alien: A Dagger into the<br>> >>>>Heart of America? says â?oPeralta graduated from Morse High School, <br>> >>>>still<br>> >>>>a Mexican citizen and worked to get his Permanent Resident Card, the<br>> >>>>famous â?~Green Cardâ?T so he could join the Marines.â?�<br>> >>>><br>> >>>>Oliver North writes that Peralta was â?oa Mexican immigrant who enlisted<br>> >>>>in the Marine Corps the day he received his green card.â?�<br>> >>>><br>> >>>>Deborah at My Little Corner of the World, a blog whose motto is<br>> >>>>â?oCalling an illegal alien an â?~undocumented immigrantâ?T is like<br>> >>>>calling a drug dealer an â?~unlicensed pharmacist,â?T â?� quotes a <br>> >>>>Boston<br>> >>>>Globe story that notes, â?oRafael Peralta was 25 years old, a Mexican<br>> >>>>immigrant from San Diego who had enlisted in the Marines as soon as he<br>> >>>>became a legal resident. â?�<br>> >>>><br>> >>>>None of the press or blog reports tell precisely how Peralta got his<br>> >>>>green card, but attorneys and former illegals relate that the way an<br>> >>>>illegal alien â?oclears upâ?� his or her legal status is by paying a<br>> >>>>bunch of money to a licenciado or notario who bribes people to forge<br>> >>>>papers and commit perjury, thereby constructing a false history that<br>> >>>>allows one to fit into a particular green card category.<br>> >>>><br>> >>>>Writers such as those above glide blissfully past this inconvenient<br>> >>>>truth, saying Peralta â?oworked to getâ?� his green card, or simply<br>> >>>>â?oreceivedâ?� it, or somehow â?obecame a legal resident.â?�<br>> >>>><br>> >>>>What is this supposed to mean? Do some actually believe an undocumented<br>> >>>>person can perform some sort of â?oworkâ?� that will eventually earn <br>> >>>>them<br>> >>>>a green card? Do they think a green card will just show up in the mail <br>> >>>>if<br>> >>>>a person stands by the mailbox long enough? Are Jose and Maria, whoâ?Tve<br>> >>>>lived here illegally for 10 years, still illegal only because they<br>> >>>>havenâ?Tt â?oworkedâ?� to â?oclear upâ?� their status?<br>> >>>><br>> >>>>Concomitantly, is the sin of having entered the country illegally<br>> >>>>magically washed away once an immigrant figures out how to jump ahead of<br>> >>>>everyone else to get a green card? Is the guilt of illegal entry and the<br>> >>>>dishonesty required for an illegal to become legal absolved by a<br>> >>>>demonstration of heroism?<br>> >>>><br>> >>>>Or is the only good illegal simply a dead illegal?<br>> >>>><br>> >>>>Gila Jones is a regular contributor to TheLiberalOC, an Orange County,<br>> >>>>California blog.<br>> >>><br>> >>><br>> >>>><< PilgrimsIllegal.doc >><br>> >>><br>> >>><br>> >>>>=======================================================<br>> >>>>List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> >>>>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> >>>>http://www.fsr.net<br>> >>>>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> >>>>=======================================================<br>> >>><br>> >>>_________________________________________________________________<br>> >>>Don't miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from<br>> >>>Microsoft Office Live<br>> >>>http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/<br>> >>><br>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> >>><br>> >>>=======================================================<br>> >>> List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the<br>> >>>communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> >>>http://www.fsr.net<br>> >>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> >>>=======================================================<br>> >><br>> ><br>> ><br>> >>=======================================================<br>> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> >> http://www.fsr.net<br>> >> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> >>=======================================================<br>> ><br>> > _________________________________________________________________<br>> > PC Magazine's 2007 editors' choice for best Web mail-award-winning Windows<br>> > Live Hotmail.<br>> > http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_pcmag_0507<br>> ><br>> ><br>> <br>> <br>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>> <br>> <br>> > =======================================================<br>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> > http://www.fsr.net<br>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > ======================================================= <br>> <br>> <br>> =======================================================<br>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>> http://www.fsr.net <br>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> =======================================================<br><br /><hr />Make every IM count. 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