[Vision2020] "Murder" rate in Moscow

[Ted Moffett]

Debbie et. al.

Can you document a case where a "murder" was plea bargained down to
"disturbing the peace or littering?"  Or was this flippant humor about a
dark subject, aimed at absurd outcomes in courts in criminal cases?  I'll
assume it was humor, unless you offer a case.

Anyway, the errors in reporting "murder" data based solely on law
enforcement investigations (law enforcement can make mistakes or
even demonstrate outright "bias" just as well the courts), rather than the
outcome of court proceedings, may cancel each other out somewhat, so that
the murder rate reported is reliable.  And in cases that do not go to court,
of which there is a significant number (the percentage of unsolved "murders"
with no alleged perpetrator to bring to court, should give everyone pause,
even in Latah County), law enforcement investigations, I guess, are the only
"official" way to determine how to classify the homicide or death, as in the
Hamilton case.

Thanks for an answer to my original question, which dealt with classifying
Hamilton's homicides as "murders" with no court proceedings determining the
innocence or guilt of the perpetrator.  I also assume that, according to
your account, several of the local "alleged murders," involving currently
innocent till proven guilty suspects, according to the judicial system, will
be reported to the UCR as murders, regardless of the court outcomes.

Ted Moffett


On 7/8/07, Debbie Gray <graylex at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> These are crimes reported (or otherwise made known) to
> the police/sheriff for each jurisdiction. The UCR
> doesn't look at how the crime is adjudicated. If 5
> murders were reported but each murderer plea bargained
> down to disturbing the peace or littering then there
> would still be 5 murders reported.
>
> This is my understanding of what the UCR is, reaching
> back into the 1980/90s as an undergrad... i can ask my
> resident crime expert in the morning...
>
> or wikipedia:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Crime_Reports>
>
> --- Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Debbie  et. al.
> >
> > So from the information you offered it appears
> > possible for a police
> > investigation to classify a homicide as a murder or
> > nonnegligent
> > manslaughter, ruling out self defense (justifiable
> > homicide), suicide,
> > negligence or accident, or an attempt or assault to
> > murder, all
> > circumstances that would rule out this "offense
> > classification," then even
> > if a court rules the death accidental, for example,
> > this is ignored for the
> > purposes of the UCR?
> >
> > This statement appears to suggest this is possible:
> >
> > "The classification of this offense is based solely
> > on
> > police investigation as opposed to the determination
> > of a court, medical examiner, coroner, jury, or
> > other
> > judicial body."
> >
> > Ted Moffett
> >
> > On 7/8/07, Debbie Gray <graylex at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > From the FBI's Crime in the United States 2005
> > > (http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/05cius/ )
> > >
> > > The Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program defines
> > > murder and nonnegligent manslaughter as the
> > willful
> > > (nonnegligent) killing of one human being by
> > another.
> > > The classification of this offense is based solely
> > on
> > > police investigation as opposed to the
> > determination
> > > of a court, medical examiner, coroner, jury, or
> > other
> > > judicial body. The UCR Program does not include
> > the
> > > following situations in this offense
> > classification:
> > > deaths caused by negligence, suicide, or accident;
> > > justifiable homicides; and attempts to murder or
> > > assaults to murder, which are scored as aggravated
> > > assaults.
> > >
> > > --- Ted Moffett < starbliss at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 7/7/07, Don Coombs <mushroom at moscow.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Please remember, though, that all murders are
> > > > killings,
> > > > > but not all killings are murders. We depend on
> > the
> > > > > judicial system to determine if a killing is
> > > > murder.
> > > > >
> > > > > Don Coombs
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So the "alleged" (what a difference this word
> > makes)
> > > > murders in Troy, by
> > > > Delling, and in or near Genesee, should not
> > > > technically be counted yet in an
> > > > estimate of Latah County's 2007 murder rate,
> > given
> > > > the judicial system has
> > > > not ruled on these cases.  But given that
> > Hamilton
> > > > will never stand trial,
> > > > and the facts of the case on his commission of
> > those
> > > > crimes appear solid,
> > > > can we call the three homicides' victims (not
> > > > counting his suicide) of
> > > > "murder?"  It sure seems so, though the judicial
> > > > system has not ruled on
> > > > this issue, or have they?
> > > >
> > > > I wonder if murder rates only include first and
> > > > second degree murder?  What
> > > > about voluntary manslaughter?  It seems that
> > > > involuntary manslaughter would
> > > > not be included, nor homicide in self defense.
> > > >
> > > > Ted Moffett
> > > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
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