[Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: church and paintball

Sun Jul 1 23:25:50 PDT 2007

Paul --

Video games are far more dangerous than that. Ever since playing Pac-Man, I:

(1) Am constantly chased by ghosts.
(2) Have to eat four pills every day that make the ghosts disappear.
(3) Occasionally eat some fruit.

-- ACS

On 7/1/07, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>  Ellen Roskovich wrote:
>
>
>
> Video games?  Don't get me started!  Fantasy and reality. . . some never get
> it.
>  If they "never get it", then they have a problem already.  If the line
> between fantasy and reality is already blurred for them, then any stimulus
> might set them off or cause an accident.  A video game, a physical group
> game like paintball, a good book, a movie, or simply their imagination can
> do it.  The problem is not the video game as "enabler", it's their inability
> to determines what's real.
>
>  I'm fed up with the Jack Thompsons of the world (google him if you don't
> know who he is).  He thinks Grand Theft Auto is a "cop killing simulator".
> What gets me is the people that say these things have never played a video
> game more complicated than solitaire or bejeweled in their lives.  Frankly,
> it makes me wonder if they are the ones with the problem with discerning
> fantasy from reality.
>
>  I've played many video games.  I've shot fireballs at cacodemons, blown up
> gangsters cars, shot soldiers with a sniper rifle, run over aliens with an
> all-terrain vehicle, run over pedestrians for points, beaten up a female
> ninja while playing as a purple-haired schoolgirl, and have even chased a
> random person around a map with a baseball bat just for the fun of it.  I've
> also jumped off of multi-story buildings, tried to take on a tank with a
> hand gun, fired a rocket launcher at my feet, and have reversed direction in
> a Nascar race just to see what the player death animations or crash scenes
> look like.  Now, many of you are probably nodding your heads because you've
> found that that explains much about me you could never quite put your finger
> on, but I'd like to believe that it's actually changed my real-life violence
> quotient exactly jack-all.
>
>  To tie this into a subject Ted has mentioned in another post, many male
> junior high students get more real-life exposure to establishment-sanctioned
> violence by playing football.  Personally, I don't have a problem with that
> either, but it's more realistic than video games because you are actually
> hitting people with your body instead of pressing left on the left thumb
> joystick while simultaneously holding down the A and X keys.
>
>  Here are the only times I can think of when video games have intruded upon
> my normal reality:
>
>  1.  Sometimes while playing Quake with a group of friends my adrenaline
> levels will rise, especially if they keep lobbing grenades at me from high
> places.
>
>  2.  I've found it best not to go for a drive immediately after playing a
> couple of hours of Need for Speed without a break as I tend to drive more
> aggressively than normal.
>
>  3.  I've sometimes had dreams where I am running around a map in Quake,
> with the pixelated graphics and everything.  Usually after a multi-hour
> session of Quake has just been completed.
>
>  4.  When I've just finished playing Tetris, I keep trying to make the
> shapes in my visual field drop and interlock with each other for a few
> seconds.
>
>  Anyway, I guess my main point is that people know where the line between
> fantasy and reality is: it's one of the most fundamental concepts they ever
> learn.  Children below a certain age will not and people with actual
> specific psychological problems may not.  Everyone else does, since it's a
> survival trait.  You may pretend that the red glowing burner is cold, but
> reality has a way of asserting itself in those kinds of situations.
>
>  Paul
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Here's a "team-building exercise" Ellen-style:  put your team in a canoe
> with a paddle and a life jacket.  You don't hold your own, you lose your
> paddle.  You still don't pull your weight, the other team members throw you
> overboard.   Wow!  Bet we soon have an award winning team!!
>
> Hey, folks, don't get too uptight. . . it's just "fantasy". . . .
>
> Ellen A. Roskovich
>
>
>
>
>  ________________________________
> From: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
>  To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: church and paintball
>  Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 09:13:39 -0700
>
>  In my opinion, as long as you have a good grasp of the line between fantasy
> and reality it shouldn't be a problem.  In that respect, it's like video
> games.
>
>  I've played paintball, and it has more in common with the old games we used
> to play in the woods as boy scouts than it does with actual military
> training or conditioning.  You know it's not real, which completely changes
> the dynamic.  Nobody is drilling you, telling you how you might just kill
> somebody if you screw up, nobody is making it plain that other lives may one
> day depend upon your performance.  It's just fun.
>
>  A lot of companies use it as a team-building exercise, because (if you want
> to win) it forces you to rely upon someone else and to be relied upon to
> achieve a goal.  It also enhances your problem-solving skills.  I see no
> conflict with religious groups doing the same thing, myself.
>
>  Paul
>
>  Ellen Roskovich wrote:
>
>
>
> Dancing and making joyous noise is a far cry from slithering around in the
> bushes, taking pot shots at your buddies and keeping score on how many kills
> you have.
>
> Call me a fuddy duddy if you wish.  No, I'll even do it for you. . . I'm a
> fuddy duddy.  I do not like organized "games" that condition people to kill
> off their fellow humans.
>
> I would cringe at any group organizing this activity for kids and it would
> have opened the door for "discussion" at our household.
>
> Ellen A. Roskovich
>
>
>
>
>  ________________________________
> From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>  To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>, "Mark Solomon" <msolomon at moscow.com>
>  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] church and paintball
>  Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2007 07:26:41 -0700
>
>
> Absolutely! Any time the Churched strip off their sack cloth and ash and
> venture forth from their cloisters I worry that they might have something
> resembling a good time. Next thing you know they'll be dancing and making a
> joyous noise and goodness knows we can't have any of that.
>
> g
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mark Solomon
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 5:32 AM
> Subject: [Vision2020] church and paintball
>
>
> Does anyone else find this as disturbing as I do? (I'd post a link to the
> full story, the rest of which is a straight business story about paintball,
> but the Tribune is a subscriber only website.)
>
>
> Mark
>
>
> *********
>
>
> Aiming for fun, with a license to thrill
>
>
>
>
> By Elaine Williams of the Tribune
>  Sunday, July 1, 2007
>
>
>  Church groups are among the most frequent customers of FTW Paintball, a
> store that recently opened in Lewiston.
>
> The organizers find that playing paintball is a way to create relationships
> among their members, said Marty Frostad, owner of the business.
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