[Vision2020] Compassion for All Life

Fri Jan 26 08:24:10 PST 2007

Nick, "persons from non-persons" is a heartless rationalization.  The question is: human or non-human.  I understand that you feel a pig is a rat is a boy - that human beings have the exact same value in your world as say, a salamander.  Most folks would question such a value system however, whether from a religious standpoint or otherwise.  

As for veggie burgers, I might consider switching over if we used Paul's recipe.

Later,    -T
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Nick Gier 
  To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 9:41 AM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Compassion for All Life

  Greetings:

  If "significant cognitive functioning" (beautiful description of the traditional view!) is not the way we sort out persons from non-persons, then please join with me in extending unconditional compassion to all the animals that are killed every day to feed the several billion carnivorous maws all over the world.

  This is an unnecessary slaughter because we can grow complete vegetable protein at a much lower cost and with much less damage to the environment.  Just as the earth and its atmosphere cannot bear developing countries owning as many cars as we do, neither can the earth bear the increased meat consumption that these countries are experiencing.  

  Both addictions, one to oil and the other to animal flesh, will be the end of us.  Millions of acres of the Amazonian rain forest are cut ever year to make way for raising beef cattle, pouring tons of CO2 and CH4 (from bovine stomachs) into the air.

  If the tradition distinction between persons and non-persons is ignored, then the only moral option is to recognize that all life has a serious moral right to live.

  Veggie Burgers Forever!

  Nick Gier

    Oh professor, how you cling to a specious distinction.  You may view "significant cognitive functioning" as helpful in defining personhood so as to rationalize killing, but it is still the taking of a human life.  For humans who were allowed to grow to adulthood unmolested to decide to kill those who have yet to develope fully is the very height of callousness and insensetivity.  You can blame tradition all you like but as I pointed out, tradition is frequently wrong and in this case you are tragically wrong along with it.

    What kind of an ethical vacuum do you live in which regards the murder of the innocent as a "good tradition?"  If you truly believe this, you are not being intellectually honest, but rather morally bankrupt.

    Now go grow some compassion.  -T 

      ----- Original Message ----- 

      From: Nick Gier 

      To: vision2020 at moscow.com 

      Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:59 AM

      Subject: [Vision2020] African Americans and Fetuses

      Greetings:

      The traditional view of moral and legal persons, coming from our combined religious, moral, and legal histories, eventually won out with regard to recognizing African Americans as full moral and legal persons.  In my article on abortion I've applied the same definition to the early fetus and the logic of the definition does not fit.  To force fit a definition is simple intellectual dishonesty.

      Therefore, there is no moral equivalence between recognizing people of color as persons and fetuses before 25 weeks.

      Just being a good conservative by preserving good traditions,

      Nick Gier

      At 07:25 AM 1/25/2007, you wrote:

        Yes Nick, and under our laws in 1850, black folks could be held as slaves.  The point is professor, that it is high time the rights the rest of us enjoy are extended to today's disenfranchised: the unborn.  How disappointing to see you on the wrong side of history this time.  Would you have rationalized the Dred Scott decision in its day?

        Tragic.

        -T 
          ----- Original Message ----- 
          From: Nick Gier 
          To: Tony 
          Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:31 AM 
          Subject: Re: [Vision2020] One More "Killer" Released Because of DNA

          Greetings:

          Under our laws the crime of murder can happen only against moral and legal persons.  Our religious, moral, and legal tradition does not recognize first and second trimester fetuses as persons.  Once again I provide the link for my essay on abortion: www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/abortion.htm. 
          Fetuses are of course biological human beings from conception on, but so are thousands of other animal species.  As a vegetarian I'm quite willing to shift to a consistent pro-life position, but I believe that most people are not willing to do this.  The moral ball is in their court, and it's their serve.

          Veggie Burgers Forever!

          Nick Gier

          At 09:22 AM 1/24/2007, you wrote:
            Nick, I was heartened to see you change your mind with regard to abortion. You are absolutely correct that the state should not be in the business of premeditated murder, especially in the case of those who are innocent in EVERY case. It is such a joy to see reason and compassion prevail. Best,   -T ----- Original Message ----- From: <nickgier at adelphia.net> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com> Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 8:57 AM Subject: [Vision2020] One More "Killer" Released Because of DNA > Greetings: > > Fortunately, most DNA exonerations are happening with prisoners who are > still alive.  The real injustice, however, is those, now over 100, who > were executed before the tests could be done. > > The state should not be in the business of premeditated murder, especially > if it cannot be sure of that its victims are guilty. > > Nick Gier > > January 24, 2007, NY Times > With DNA From Exhumed Body, Man Finally Wins Freedom > By FERNANDA SANTOS > > AUBURN, N.Y., Jan. 23 - Roy Brown, who spent 15 yeears in prison on a > murder conviction and uncovered evidence while there that linked another > man to the crime, was released from prison on Tuesday after DNA tests on > the other manâ?Ts exhumed body matched saliva on a nightshirt at the crime > scene. > > After 15 years behind bars, Mr. Brown stepped out of court into a light > snowfall and gently pushed his way through a cluster of relatives who vied > for his attention. The reception was fine, he said, but he is too sick > with liver disease to stand on his feet for long. > > â?oChanges have got to be made, man,â? Mr. Brown said later at a lawyerâ?Ts > office across the street, answering questions in a monotone as he rested > awkwardly in a black swivel chair. â?oThey say the wheels of justice move > slowly, but you know what? The wheels of justice are flat.â? > > Mr. Brown, 46, is the eighth person in New York State exonerated through > DNA evidence in the past 13 months, more than in any other state during > the same period. > > The DNA tests that freed him confirmed the results of his own jailhouse > investigation, in which he discovered documents that incriminated Barry > Bench, a volunteer firefighter, in the murder of Sabina Kulakowski, 49, a > social worker who had lived with Mr. Benchâ?Ts brother until months before > her death. Earlier DNA tests conducted by Mr. Brownâ?Ts lawyers linked Mr. > Benchâ?Ts daughter, Katherine Eckstadt, to the genetic code lifted from the > saliva on Ms. Kulakowskiâ?Ts nightshirt. > > ======================================================= > List services made available by First Step Internet, > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. >               http://www.fsr.net >          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com > ======================================================= > > ======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.                  http://www.fsr.net                                 mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com =======================================================
          "Truth is the summit of being; justice is the application of it to human affairs." 
          --Ralph Waldo Emerson

          "Abstract truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings who represent it, by proving their readiness to die for it." 
           --Mohandas Gandhi

          "Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system cannot be discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each part by itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on the interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our intellectual life. It is impossible to make a clear cut between science, religion, and art. The whole is never equal simply to the sum of its various parts." --Max Planck

          Nicholas F. Gier 
          Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy, University of Idaho 
          1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID 83843 
          http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm 
          208-882-9212/FAX 885-8950 
          President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO 
          http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm

    "Truth is the summit of being; justice is the application of it to human affairs."

    --Ralph Waldo Emerson

    "Abstract truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings who represent it, by proving their readiness to die for it."

     --Mohandas Gandhi

    "Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system cannot be discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each part by itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on the interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our intellectual life. It is impossible to make a clear cut between science, religion, and art. The whole is never equal simply to the sum of its various parts." --Max Planck

    Nicholas F. Gier

    Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy, University of Idaho

    1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID 83843

    http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm

    208-882-9212/FAX 885-8950

    President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO

    http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    =======================================================

     List services made available by First Step Internet, 

     serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   

                   http://www.fsr.net                      

              mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com

    =======================================================

  "Truth is the summit of being; justice is the application of it to human affairs."
  --Ralph Waldo Emerson

  "Abstract truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings who represent it, by proving their readiness to die for it."
   --Mohandas Gandhi

  "Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system cannot be discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each part by itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on the interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our intellectual life. It is impossible to make a clear cut between science, religion, and art. The whole is never equal simply to the sum of its various parts." --Max Planck

  Nicholas F. Gier
  Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy, University of Idaho
  1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID 83843
  http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm
  208-882-9212/FAX 885-8950
  President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO
  http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  =======================================================
   List services made available by First Step Internet, 
   serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
                 http://www.fsr.net                       
            mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
  =======================================================
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20070126/00259dd5/attachment-0001.html 