[Vision2020] Compassion for All Life

[Kai Eiselein, editor]

Nick,
I'll agree with you about oil, however I'll disagree with you about "animal
flesh" aka "meat".
First of all, had early hominids NOT started eating meat, you would not now
be a professor. Meat consumption was a major factor in the brain growth of
our species, which in turn allowed us to "think". Meat is a natural part of
the human diet, plain and simple.
Secondly, before you get all selfrighteous about vegetarians not killing
animals, remember this: Farming the ground kills more animals than hunting
does. Think about it. Mice, voles, birds all fall victim to farming,
therefore, farming amounts to mass murder in your frame of thinking.
  -----Original Message-----
  From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]On Behalf Of Nick Gier
  Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 9:41 AM
  To: vision2020 at moscow.com
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Compassion for All Life


  Greetings:

  If "significant cognitive functioning" (beautiful description of the
traditional view!) is not the way we sort out persons from non-persons, then
please join with me in extending unconditional compassion to all the animals
that are killed every day to feed the several billion carnivorous maws all
over the world.

  This is an unnecessary slaughter because we can grow complete vegetable
protein at a much lower cost and with much less damage to the environment.
Just as the earth and its atmosphere cannot bear developing countries owning
as many cars as we do, neither can the earth bear the increased meat
consumption that these countries are experiencing.

  Both addictions, one to oil and the other to animal flesh, will be the end
of us.  Millions of acres of the Amazonian rain forest are cut ever year to
make way for raising beef cattle, pouring tons of CO2 and CH4 (from bovine
stomachs) into the air.

  If the tradition distinction between persons and non-persons is ignored,
then the only moral option is to recognize that all life has a serious moral
right to live.

  Veggie Burgers Forever!

  Nick Gier

    Oh professor, how you cling to a specious distinction.  You may view
"significant cognitive functioning" as helpful in defining personhood so as
to rationalize killing, but it is still the taking of a human life.  For
humans who were allowed to grow to adulthood unmolested to decide to kill
those who have yet to develope fully is the very height of callousness and
insensetivity.  You can blame tradition all you like but as I pointed out,
tradition is frequently wrong and in this case you are tragically wrong
along with it.

    What kind of an ethical vacuum do you live in which regards the murder
of the innocent as a "good tradition?"  If you truly believe this, you are
not being intellectually honest, but rather morally bankrupt.

    Now go grow some compassion.  -T

      ----- Original Message -----

      From: Nick Gier

      To: vision2020 at moscow.com

      Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:59 AM

      Subject: [Vision2020] African Americans and Fetuses


      Greetings:


      The traditional view of moral and legal persons, coming from our
combined religious, moral, and legal histories, eventually won out with
regard to recognizing African Americans as full moral and legal persons.  In
my article on abortion I've applied the same definition to the early fetus
and the logic of the definition does not fit.  To force fit a definition is
simple intellectual dishonesty.


      Therefore, there is no moral equivalence between recognizing people of
color as persons and fetuses before 25 weeks.


      Just being a good conservative by preserving good traditions,


      Nick Gier


      At 07:25 AM 1/25/2007, you wrote:

        Yes Nick, and under our laws in 1850, black folks could be held as
slaves.  The point is professor, that it is high time the rights the rest of
us enjoy are extended to today's disenfranchised: the unborn.  How
disappointing to see you on the wrong side of history this time.  Would you
have rationalized the Dred Scott decision in its day?



        Tragic.



        -T
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Nick Gier
          To: Tony
          Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:31 AM
          Subject: Re: [Vision2020] One More "Killer" Released Because of
DNA

          Greetings:

          Under our laws the crime of murder can happen only against moral
and legal persons.  Our religious, moral, and legal tradition does not
recognize first and second trimester fetuses as persons.  Once again I
provide the link for my essay on abortion:
www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/abortion.htm.
          Fetuses are of course biological human beings from conception on,
but so are thousands of other animal species.  As a vegetarian I'm quite
willing to shift to a consistent pro-life position, but I believe that most
people are not willing to do this.  The moral ball is in their court, and
it's their serve.

          Veggie Burgers Forever!

          Nick Gier

          At 09:22 AM 1/24/2007, you wrote:
            Nick, I was heartened to see you change your mind with regard to
abortion. You are absolutely correct that the state should not be in the
business of premeditated murder, especially in the case of those who are
innocent in EVERY case. It is such a joy to see reason and compassion
prevail. Best,   -T ----- Original Message ----- From:
<nickgier at adelphia.net> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com> Sent: Wednesday, January
24, 2007 8:57 AM Subject: [Vision2020] One More "Killer" Released Because of
DNA > Greetings: > > Fortunately, most DNA exonerations are happening with
prisoners who are > still alive.  The real injustice, however, is those, now
over 100, who > were executed before the tests could be done. > > The state
should not be in the business of premeditated murder, especially > if it
cannot be sure of that its victims are guilty. > > Nick Gier > > January 24,
2007, NY Times > With DNA From Exhumed Body, Man Finally Wins Freedom > By
FERNANDA SANTOS > > AUBURN, N.Y., Jan. 23 — Roy Brown, who spent 15 yeears
in prison on a > murder conviction and uncovered evidence while there that
linked another > man to the crime, was released from prison on Tuesday after
DNA tests on > the other man’s exhumed body matched saliva on a nightshirt
at the crime > scene. > > After 15 years behind bars, Mr. Brown stepped out
of court into a light > snowfall and gently pushed his way through a cluster
of relatives who vied > for his attention. The reception was fine, he said,
but he is too sick > with liver disease to stand on his feet for long. > >
“Changes have got to be made, man,” Mr. Brown said later at a lawyer’s
> office across the street, answering questions in a monotone as he rested >
awkwardly in a black swivel chair. “They say the wheels of justice move >
slowly, but you know what? The wheels of justice are flat.” > > Mr. Brown,
46, is the eighth person in New York State exonerated through > DNA evidence
in the past 13 months, more than in any other state during > the same
period. > > The DNA tests that freed him confirmed the results of his own
jailhouse > investigation, in which he discovered documents that
incriminated Barry > Bench, a volunteer firefighter, in the murder of Sabina
Kulakowski, 49, a > social worker who had lived with Mr. Bench’s brother
until months before > her death. Earlier DNA tests conducted by Mr.
Brown’s lawyers linked Mr. > Bench’s daughter, Katherine Eckstadt, to
the genetic code lifted from the > saliva on Ms. Kulakowski’s nightshirt.
> > ======================================================= > List services
made available by First Step Internet, > serving the communities of the
Palouse since 1994. >               http://www.fsr.net >
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com >
======================================================= > >
======================================================= List services made
available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse
since 1994.                  http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
          "Truth is the summit of being; justice is the application of it to
human affairs."
          --Ralph Waldo Emerson

          "Abstract truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings
who represent it, by proving their readiness to die for it."
           --Mohandas Gandhi

          "Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system cannot
be discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each part
by itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on the
interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our intellectual
life. It is impossible to make a clear cut between science, religion, and
art. The whole is never equal simply to the sum of its various parts." --Max
Planck


          Nicholas F. Gier
          Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy, University of Idaho
          1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID 83843
          http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm
          208-882-9212/FAX 885-8950
          President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO
          http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm


    "Truth is the summit of being; justice is the application of it to human
affairs."

    --Ralph Waldo Emerson


    "Abstract truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings who
represent it, by proving their readiness to die for it."

     --Mohandas Gandhi


    "Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system cannot be
discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each part by
itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on the
interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our intellectual
life. It is impossible to make a clear cut between science, religion, and
art. The whole is never equal simply to the sum of its various parts." --Max
Planck


    Nicholas F. Gier

    Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy, University of Idaho

    1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID 83843

    http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm

    208-882-9212/FAX 885-8950

    President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO

    http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    =======================================================

     List services made available by First Step Internet,

     serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.

                   http://www.fsr.net

              mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com

    =======================================================


  "Truth is the summit of being; justice is the application of it to human
affairs."
  --Ralph Waldo Emerson

  "Abstract truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings who
represent it, by proving their readiness to die for it."
   --Mohandas Gandhi

  "Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system cannot be
discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each part by
itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on the
interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our intellectual
life. It is impossible to make a clear cut between science, religion, and
art. The whole is never equal simply to the sum of its various parts." --Max
Planck

  Nicholas F. Gier
  Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy, University of Idaho
  1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID 83843
  http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm
  208-882-9212/FAX 885-8950
  President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO
  http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm



  __________ NOD32 2004 (20070124) Information __________

  This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
  http://www.eset.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20070125/a591b732/attachment-0001.html