[Vision2020] Wilsonista Strike again
g. crabtree
jampot at adelphia.net
Sat Feb 10 09:10:27 PST 2007
J. Ford on 29 November 2006 18:06
> You have been very vocal on what you think of this country, this county,
> this city, the people in each, and this list - you don't like it - GO
> AWAY.
> You have enough money and enough stupid, insipid followers; why not just
> find a patch of land that you can build on that has NOTHING to do with
> taking over other people's ways and means of making a living, take
> whatever
> tax break you demand, and just get on with getting on - SOMEWHERE ELSE!
g
----- Original Message -----
From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2007 2:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wilsonista Strike again
> GAWD!!!! How blind can you be. Your "arguments" below are about a lame as
> Wilson's were at the meeting last week.
>
> NO ONE is asking for the removal of CC'ers or of Doug Wilson from Moscow.
> This has been said so many times, it should be tattooed on yer brain by now.
>
> All anyone is asking of them is that they follow the laws we ALL have to
> follow, that they stop getting special treatment by the City, that they stop
> the harassment of ex-members, that Wilson stop making things up as he goes
> along (REALLY - abortion! is the reason for the "Slavery" book?!)
>
> You don't know anything else about him but what you've heard here? How can
> you comment about things, support a church or group or leader that YOU
> REFUSE to look into just because another group of people speaks out against
> them?! I mean, if someone said the sky was pink and you never looked to
> make sure it was or wasn't, but you support a group that insists it is just
> because another group says you shouldn't trust that first group, just how do
> you think make you look?
>
> And where is anyone telling people they "can't go to CC"? Where? If people
> want to belong to a cult, as long as they are OPEN EYED when they enter it,
> its up to them to become what they want. And for that matter, Doug IS being
> challenged by his church in many areas. He just refuses to do the right
> things and step down. As far as "Pope Wilson" is concerned, he can do no
> wrong and that's that.
>
> All anyone is asking and saying is please follow the laws, pay your fair
> share, don't lie, and stop the harassment of ex-members. WHY is that so
> hard for you to get your mind around? It is not YOUR beliefs that I
> question - it is simply your willingness to buy into a group and its leader
> when you refuse to know anything else about them but that they are being
> questioned and challenged about by people you don't like.
>
> Jeez - get over yourself! Despite what you want to believe this really is
> NOT about you!
>
> J :]
>
>
>
>
>
>>From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
>>To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wilsonista Strike again
>>Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 17:39:51 -0800
>>
>>I don't know for sure why I am doing this...getting involved in a
>>discussion
>>with someone so focused on an individual that they do not see anything else
>>but I am. I am relying on the history I learned in high school history
>>classes because I have never been in a class of any sort with Mr. Wilson.
>>Now I am old so I didn't learn then in classes nor from my parents any sort
>>of revisionist history about the dropping of the bombs or anything else
>>that
>>some like to spout now. I am talking about 1937-38 when the Nazis marched
>>in
>>and took away the rights of the Jews...just for being Jews. Next they took
>>the gypsies and then the handicapped and so on and so on until there was no
>>one left to protect the innocent. So, if you and others get your way we
>>boot
>>step in and remove CC and do not leave the followers to their rights of
>>belief. As I have said before...no one is walking around town with a gun
>>saying we MUST go to CC. However, on this site you and others are doing all
>>you can to make sure no one and I mean NO ONE can go to CC and have peace.
>>The one and only person raving at me is YOU. I have only sort of met Mr.
>>Wilson I bet he couldn't pick me out of any crowd but it seems that to you
>>a
>>person cannot have a thought other than yours without someone forcing it
>>into their head. The only place I see any of his teachings is from you and
>>others on this list who now have a personal ax to grind so much so that you
>>are unbelievable. Mr. Wilson is not responsible to me for what he teaches
>>and if the followers of his church do not see a problem that makes them
>>want
>>to leave it is not any of my business. I know some who are involved with CC
>>and they are intelligent capable people. I have only heard from you when my
>>beliefs do not fall into your line of hate and then the venom is deep and
>>mean. With this said I don't think I have anything to add but I guess we'll
>>see what evolves.
>>
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 3:48 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wilsonista Strike again
>>
>>
>>And whose version of history are you trusting, Pat? Wilson's? Or the
>>established, repeatedly verifiable history of decades and century's past?
>>I
>>mean, just 'cause Wilson says "things would have been different if I had
>>been there" is not enough of a qualifier for most folks and speaks volumes
>>of what he thinks his "powers" to affect are. Sad that you and people like
>>you and Gary are falling for this crap, but....when in kirker-land....
>>
>>Oh, and to be clear - he is REPEATING history - Jim Jones, Vernon Howell,
>>Warren Jeffs,....yep, history being repeated right here in Moscow! So,
>>does
>>he know history enough to not repeat it or just enough TO repeat it? And
>>what "certain parts" would you rather he not repeat and which would you
>>rather he DOES repeat? I mean, which of his thumbs would you like to be
>>under, Pat?
>>
>>As for me and mine...NOT A SINGLE ONE!
>>
>>
>>
>>J :]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
>> >To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wilsonista Strike again
>> >Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 15:09:40 -0800
>> >
>> >"Its obvious you are just as brainwashed and blind as the rest of the
>> >kirkers. So - when do you take your vows for the church anyway? Or are
>> >you
>> >an "honorary" member
>> >by now?"
>> >Is this the only choice? Is it not possible to know a lot about history
>>and
>> >no desire to see certain parts repeated?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>> >To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> >Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 10:15 AM
>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wilsonista Strike again
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Don't know what a "bogeyman" is but I'm sure you are referencing someone
>> >you
>> >are very familiar with or related to. Either way - no thanks!
>> >
>> >As far as kirkers "supporting other businesses" - ONLY when they can not
>> >get
>> >it at a kirker-owned business, can they go outside and make a purchase.
>> >The
>> >back of their directory outlines just what shopping practices they are
>> >supposed observe, the guidelines for shopping "outside" and lists what
>> >kirker-owned businesses there are in town.
>> >
>> >As far as the rest of your drivill - not worth going into. Its obvious
>>you
>> >are just as brainwashed and blind as the rest of the kirkers. So - when
>>do
>> >you take your vows for the church anyway? Or are you an "honorary"
>>member
>> >by now?
>> >
>> >
>> >J :]
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > >From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>> > >To: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wilsonista Strike again
>> > >Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2007 06:59:39 -0800
>> > >
>> > >Oh yes Ms. Ford, I am serious as a stroke. I don't care that the people
>> >who
>> > >are employed at the various places in question are members of the
>>Wilson
>> > >fold. They are residents of Moscow. People who own property in Moscow.
>> >(and
>> > >pay property tax in Moscow) They utilize the services of other
>>businesses
>> > >in Moscow. Eat, shop and recreate in Moscow, and despite your personal
>> > >panics and phobias, over all, these people are good for Moscow's
>>economy
>> > >and I welcome them as neighbors and fellow citizens. I know that it's
>> > >impossible for you to pass up an opportunity to regurgitate your litany
>> >of
>> > >anti-CC spleen, no matter what the topic might be but, when it comes to
>> > >answering the question of what's impeding healthy growth in Moscow
>>there
>> > >can be no question that it's not your personal bogeyman.
>> > >
>> > >g
>> > >----- Original Message -----
>> > >From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>> > >To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> > >Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 6:10 PM
>> > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wilsonista Strike again
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Jeez, Gary - you can't be serious! Not one of the things you have
>> > >mentioned
>> > > > that Wilson "created" is for anyone else BUT HIS CHURCH! They do
>>not
>> > >hire
>> > > > out of the church, therefore the the "payroll" created is bunk. The
>> > >church
>> > > > schools he has "created" buy his own books that his own press
>> >publishes.
>> > > He
>> > > > fires or gets rid of anyone that disagrees with him or whose wife
>> > >displeases
>> > > > him (remember the Canon Press worker whose wife sent him an e-mail
>> >that
>> > >Doug
>> > > > found displeasing?) Elders whose children do things Doug doesn't
>> >like,
>> > >get
>> > > > canned. Only until that child is brought back into what Doug thinks
>> >is
>> > >in
>> > > > line, do the elders get to be back on the big-boy's playing field.
>> > >WOMEN
>> > > > are not allowed to hold any kind of position of power. Taxes, which
>> > >most
>> > > > businesses have to pay, are not paid by CC businesses when they
>>claim
>> > > > non-profit status. Some of the BIGGEST buildings in the CBD don't
>>pay
>> > >taxes
>> > > > because of this, leaving the rest of the small businesses down there
>> >to
>> > >pick
>> > > > up the slack. Heck, there are members of that church who plain and
>> > >simply
>> > > > don't pay taxes because they don't agree with them. And just how
>>many
>> > >CCer
>> > > > businesses have gone under because Doug has a falling out with the
>> > >"owner"
>> > > > of said business? Anyone eat at West of Paris lately - that is NOT
>> > > > associated with the church, that is?
>> > > >
>> > > > Establishing illegal schools, not following the law in regards to
>> >same,
>> > > > demanding and getting special privileges in regards to zoning and
>> > >building
>> > > > developments or permits, support of a serial child molester as well
>>as
>> > > > another one that should STILL be in jail, not informing the public
>> >about
>> > > > these "men's" activities, promoting the dissolution of several
>> >marriages
>> > > > because Doug is unhappy with one of the spouses, demanding the death
>> >of
>> > > > certain populations within the city, condoning and recommending
>> >slavery
>> > >and
>> > > > then two years after the publication of a book on that subject, he
>> >tries
>> > >a
>> > > > lame excuse like "it really was all about abortion"...yep - sounds
>> >like
>> > >a
>> > > > real benefit to the community, that does.
>> > > >
>> > > > J :]
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>> > > >>To: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> > > >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wilsonista Strike again
>> > > >>Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 17:20:20 -0800
>> > > >>
>> > > >>Lets see, on the one hand we have Nancy Chaney, Bob Stout, and last
>> >but
>> > >far
>> > > >>from the least, Aaron Ament. All doing their absolute level best to
>> > >prevent
>> > > >>any kind of growth in Moscow which doesn't meet with their fantasy
>> >ideal
>> > > >>for
>> > > >>our town. (think Mexican beach turtle herding) They enact ordinances
>> > >which
>> > > >>all but scream retail development need not apply and do their best
>>to
>> > > >>discourage growth of existing businesses.
>> > > >>
>> > > >>On the other hand we have Douglas Wilson, instrumental in the
>> > >development
>> > > >>of
>> > > >>Christ Church, Logos, New St. Andrews, Cannon Press, etc.
>> >Establishments
>> > > >>with employees, customers, and a payroll. Establishments which,
>> >despite
>> > >the
>> > > >>contrary droning of a small but vocal minority, are a benefit to our
>> > >city.
>> > > >>
>> > > >>To imagine that Wilson even comes close to being the destructive,
>> >anti-
>> > > >>growth force in Moscow that our elected city council and mayor
>> > >represents
>> > > >>is
>> > > >>silly, even by comparison to your previous standard, to which I
>>become
>> > > >>sadly
>> > > >>accustomed.
>> > > >>
>> > > >>g
>> > > >>
>> > > >>----- Original Message -----
>> > > >>From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
>> > > >>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> > > >>Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 4:17 PM
>> > > >>Subject: [Vision2020] Wilsonista Strike again
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> >I met someone today that is part of a non-religious group new to
>> > >Moscow.
>> > > >> > Since being here over the past month, this person has been
>> >INUNDATED
>> > > >>with
>> > > >> > information, warnings and cautions about Wilson and Christ
>>Church.
>> > >Fact
>> > > >> > is,
>> > > >> > they and their family were warned about Wilson, et al, BEFORE
>>they
>> > >even
>> > > >> > got
>> > > >> > here by people who don't live in Moscow. They have just heard
>>and
>> > >seen
>> > > >> > some
>> > > >> > of the mess that has been going on through the paper, people's
>>word
>> > >of
>> > > >> > mouth
>> > > >> > personal reactions to incidents, the Slavery Book, etc.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Now THAT is just what this town needs - a reputation for breeding
>> > >people
>> > > >> > like Wilson. It no wonder we don't have more businesses looking
>> >here
>> > >to
>> > > >> > open or people non-Wilsonista-connected to move and live here.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > Good going, big guy...you're on the map and you're dragging us
>>down
>> > >with
>> > > >> > you. Ever think of moving to the desert? I hear there's a nice
>> > >bridge
>> > > >> > down
>> > > >> > in Arizona that you might want to build a moat around and declare
>> > >your
>> > > >> > kingdom from.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > J :]
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >>From: "Sue Hovey" <suehovey at moscow.com>
>> > > >> >>To: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>, "'Saundra Lund'"
>> > > >> >><sslund at roadrunner.com>
>> > > >> >>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > > >> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
>> > > >> >>Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 10:01:22 -1000
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>Tom and Saundra,
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>I'll be happy to bring coffee and donuts, and I'll even help
>> > >straighten
>> > > >> >>the
>> > > >> >>club room after meetings. However, I will not take minutes, nor
>> >will
>> > >I
>> > > >> >>volunteer to call and inform members of anything. And if you
>>rent
>> > > >>Kibbie
>> > > >> >>Dome, I'm reconsidering my willingness to help straighten the
>>club
>> > >room.
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>But thanks for the invite.
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>Sue
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>----- Original Message -----
>> > > >> >>From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>> > > >> >>To: "'Saundra Lund'" <sslund at roadrunner.com>; "'Sue Hovey'"
>> > > >> >><suehovey at moscow.com>
>> > > >> >>Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> > > >> >>Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 3:57 AM
>> > > >> >>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >> > Yes, Sue -
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> > Welcome to the Intoleristas.
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> > Until you get better acquainted with the neighborhood, may I
>> > >suggest
>> > > >> >>that
>> > > >> >> > Saundra show you around. As the newest addition to the rank
>>and
>> > > >>file,
>> > > >> >>you
>> > > >> >> > will be responsible for coffee and donut runs. We meet every
>> >12th
>> > >of
>> > > >> >> > Never.
>> > > >> >> > So, my advice would be "Don't be late."
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> > Guys, we really must get a larger club house. I hear that
>>Doug
>> > > >>Wilson
>> > > >> >>can
>> > > >> >> > get us a really sweet deal on renting the Kibbie Dome. How
>> >about
>> > >it?
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> > Welcome aboard,
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> > Tom Hansen
>> > > >> >> > Intolerista Sergeant-at-Arms
>> > > >> >> > Moscow, Idaho
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> > "If not us, who?
>> > > >> >> > If not now, when?"
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> > - Unknown
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> > From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>> > > >> >>[mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
>> > > >> >> > On Behalf Of Saundra Lund
>> > > >> >> > Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2007 10:21 PM
>> > > >> >> > To: 'Sue Hovey'
>> > > >> >> > Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > > >> >> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Godwin's Law Strikes Again!
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> > In part, Sue Hovey wrote:
>> > > >> >> > "Our relationship is finished, done. over."
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> > WELCOME TO THE CLUB! We're glad to have you :-)))
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> > Saundra Lund
>> > > >> >> > Moscow, ID
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> > The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good
>> > >people
>> > > >>to
>> > > >> >>do
>> > > >> >> > nothing.
>> > > >> >> > - Edmund Burke
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> > ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006,
>> > >Saundra
>> > > >> >>Lund.
>> > > >> >> > Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision
>> > >2020
>> > > >> >>forum
>> > > >> >> > without the express written permission of the author.*****
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> > --
>> > > >> >> > No virus found in this incoming message.
>> > > >> >> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> > > >> >> > Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.27/671 - Release
>>Date:
>> > > >> >>2/5/2007
>> > > >> >> > 4:48 PM
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >>
>> > > >> >>=======================================================
>> > > >> >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > > >> >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> > > >> >> http://www.fsr.net
>> > > >> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > > >> >>=======================================================
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > > >> > Valentine's Day -- Shop for gifts that spell L-O-V-E at MSN
>> >Shopping
>> > > >> >
>> > >
>> >
>> >>http://shopping.msn.com/content/shp/?ctId=8323,ptnrid=37,ptnrdata=24095&tc
>> >ode=wlmtagline
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > >
>> >
>> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >------
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> > =======================================================
>> > > >> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > > >> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> > > >> > http://www.fsr.net
>> > > >> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > > >> > =======================================================
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>=======================================================
>> > > >> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > > >> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> > > >> http://www.fsr.net
>> > > >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > > >>=======================================================
>> > > >
>> > > > _________________________________________________________________
>> > > > Don't miss your chance to WIN 10 hours of private jet travel from
>> > >Microsoft
>> > > > Office Live
>> >http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0540002499mrt/direct/01/
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >-----
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > =======================================================
>> > > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> > > > http://www.fsr.net
>> > > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > > > =======================================================
>> >
>> >
>> > >=======================================================
>> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> > > http://www.fsr.net
>> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > >=======================================================
>> >
>> >_________________________________________________________________
>> >Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the
>>Academy
>> >Awards® http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?icid=ncoscartagline2
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-
>> >----
>> >
>> >
>> >=======================================================
>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> > http://www.fsr.net
>> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >=======================================================
>> >
>> >=======================================================
>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> > http://www.fsr.net
>> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >=======================================================
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>Search for grocery stores. Find gratitude. Turn a simple search into
>>something more.
>>http://click4thecause.live.com/search/charity/default.aspx?source=hmemtagline_gratitude&FORM=WLMTAG
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>----
>>
>>
>>=======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>=======================================================
>>
>>=======================================================
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> http://www.fsr.net
>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>=======================================================
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Laugh, share and connect with Windows Live Messenger
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> =======================================================
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20070210/c0150c67/attachment-0001.html
More information about the Vision2020
mailing list