[Vision2020] Gnostic Accountability
kjajmix1 at msn.com
Sat Dec 29 17:39:57 PST 2007
Note to self: Read things more carefully, particularly if you've been traveling all day. I missed Andreas' "starve to death" and took Gary's words as a charge against all Intoleristas. Gary, I'm sorry. Although I do wonder if you often presume that we want "death" or literal harm to come to Wilson, et al, my comments were ill-advised in this case. I stand by my hopes and prayers for Christ Church, and I acknowledge that I need to be more careful.
Not "atrocious," perhaps, but dumb. And that ain't good, either.
From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; ophite at gmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Gnostic Accountability
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 17:22:20 -0800
Mr. Schou's solution to the specious, community
wide rift that Mr. Gier imagines Wilson is responsible for is
contained in the second to the last line of the post I was responding to.
It seems unambiguous.
"Starving Wilson's church to death using
all powers short of state coercion."
----- Original Message -----
To: g. crabtree ; Andreas Schou
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 4:00
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Gnostic
Referring to Gary's response, below, regarding "intolerance"
and Christ Church's opponents, I have a question that I know he would find
pertinent. When has Andreas or anyone else ever called for, worked for,
or publicly hoped for "death for this particular faith community"?
like an end to this particular faith community's influence on the Palouse,
yes. I'd like to see the whole organization collapse in a heap of
Spirit-led repentance and remorse, yes. And I'd like to see it rise up
again as a true "Christ" Church, working for reconciliation, justice, peace,
truth, equality and the comfort of the afflicted -- absolutely. But harm
to any of its leaders, followers, or their families, many of whom, if they're
women and children, feel they have no choice but to remain at least outwardly
committed to the Kirk? No way. I have never prayed an imprecatory
prayer in my life and I have never physically harmed another person in my
life, except for once in self-defense two or three decades ago. I won't
start now, and I know Andreas and every other "Intolerista" well enough to
know that they wouldn't, either.
So, Gary, what did you
mean? And do you include those in Kootenai County who bravely fought for
the "death" of the Aryan Nations not too long ago in your condemnation of
those who you feel are a "mite intolerant"? Do tell. I'm unpacked,
I've gone through the mail, and I've got all evening to hear your
response. Whatever it is, I wish you and your wife a Happy New
> From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: ophite at gmail.com
> Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 15:35:29 -0800
vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Gnostic
> So, let me see if I have this
> Traditional Roman Catholic's were instrumental if
not wholly responsible for
> the European theatre of WWII. (I guess
this makes the followers traditional
> Shinto responsible for the
> Christians waged a religious war against the stone
age natives in the
> The Troubles in Ireland
were actually a conflict over religious dogma.
> The conflict
in Yugoslavia was primarily Christian aggression and not ethnic
rivalry and tensions.
> Etc. etc, etc.
right that one or more Christians were involved in the examples you
gave and by your definition I suppose that must make them examples of deaths
> caused by Christians. I would contend that traditional Christianity
> of itself had precious little to do with these conflicts most
> the cases of the Taipeng rebellion (class warfare led
by a whack job who
> thought he was Jesus' little brother.) The same
applies to The Lord's
> Resistance Army of Sudan and God's Army in
Thailand and Burma. (Joseph Kony
> and Johnny & Luther Htoo are
simply blood thirsty, mentally unstable little
> savages not religious
Christian leaders) Both of these movements wrap misc.
> scraps and
shards of Christianity around themselves but are in no way
with traditional Christian thought.
> Next you admit that
absolutely none of this has even the slightest thing to
> do with
Gier's bane and yet you suggest that the best possible thing for
Moscow would be death for this particular faith community. And you genuinely
> wonder why some folks find you a mite intolerant?
> ----- Original
> From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>
To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
<nickgier at adelphia.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Saturday, December 29, 2007 12:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Gnostic
> > On Dec 28, 2007 6:51 PM, g.
crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> >> ...religious
> >> Buddhist--are one of the
greatest dangers that the human race faces...
>> Doug Wilson...is neck deep in the type of
> >> doctrines
that drive religious fanaticism...
> >> Wilson is
largely responsible for the split we now experience in our
> >> A few questions if I
> >> 1. Of all the deaths caused by religous
fundamentalists in the, how many
> >> were caused by Christians?
How many of the victims were Christian? Please
> >> try and
contain your answer to the last two centurys, please.
> Okay. Sure.
> > We'll leave out Catholic complicity
and assistance in the fascist
> > regimes of Franco and Mussolini. We
can omit the Christian war against
> > the native peoples of the
Americas as well, because you're either
> > going to cast that as
'not that bad', an ethnic conflict, or
> > inevitable. This is where
Western Europeans rack up the majority of
> > their atrocities. If
you like, we can leave out the religious aspect
> > of colonialism
altogether--though that was indisputably more murderous
> > than any
other fundamentalist movement of the past two centuries.
> Let's start with the Catholic/Protestant split in Ireland. Add to
> > the Catholic Croat/Orthodox Serbs/Muslim Armenian
> > in the Balkans. Tack on the Christian
Phalange in Lebanon, responsible
> > for the Sabra and Shatila
massacres, among others. Hong Xiuquan and
> > the Taipeng rebellion.
The Lord's Resistance Army of Sudan. God's Army
> > in Thailand and
> > Western Europe, the area with which you would
be most familiar, lacks
> > recent atrocities largely because
previous atrocities were largely
> > successful at exterminating
other religious groups.
> >> 2.How many of those
unfortunate occourances were/are attributable to
> > None. Wilson is in the business of excusing
past atrocities, as he
> > lacks the power to create fresh
> >> 3.What is it you suggest should be done to
curb the murderous rampage
> >> that
> >> is causing
this horrifying rift in the community, aside from spending an
excrusiating amount of time being tortured at
> > Starving Wilson's church
to death using all powers short of state
> > coercion.
> > Hope that helps.
> > -- ACS
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