[Vision2020] Gnostic Accountability

J Ford privatejf32 at hotmail.com
Sat Dec 29 18:50:58 PST 2007

Why have you not responded in like or condemned the "prayers to squash them like the bugs they are" that Mike Lawyer and even Patch Blakely has promoted and in fact said?  Don't see you reacting to tell them to stop it.....seems short-sighted to me.  Well, ok - "blind-sighted".  Same dif in this case.

J  :]

From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: kjajmix1 at msn.com; ophite at gmail.com
Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 17:22:20 -0800
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Gnostic Accountability

Mr. Schou's solution to the specious, community 
wide rift that Mr. Gier imagines Wilson is responsible for is 
contained in the second to the last line of the post I was responding to. 
It seems unambiguous.
"Starving Wilson's church to death using 
all powers short of state coercion."

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  keely emerinemix 
  To: g. crabtree ; Andreas Schou 
  Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 4:00 
  Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Gnostic 
Referring to Gary's response, below, regarding "intolerance" 
  and Christ Church's opponents, I have a question that I know he would find 
  pertinent.  When has Andreas or anyone else ever called for, worked for, 
  or publicly hoped for "death for this particular faith community"?

  like an end to this particular faith community's influence on the Palouse, 
  yes.  I'd like to see the whole organization collapse in a heap of 
  Spirit-led repentance and remorse, yes.  And I'd like to see it rise up 
  again as a true "Christ" Church, working for reconciliation, justice, peace, 
  truth, equality and the comfort of the afflicted -- absolutely.  But harm 
  to any of its leaders, followers, or their families, many of whom, if they're 
  women and children, feel they have no choice but to remain at least outwardly 
  committed to the Kirk?  No way.  I have never prayed an imprecatory 
  prayer in my life and I have never physically harmed another person in my 
  life, except for once in self-defense two or three decades ago.  I won't 
  start now, and I know Andreas and every other "Intolerista" well enough to 
  know that they wouldn't, either.  

So, Gary, what did you 
  mean?  And do you include those in Kootenai County who bravely fought for 
  the "death" of the Aryan Nations not too long ago in your condemnation of 
  those who you feel are a "mite intolerant"?  Do tell.  I'm unpacked, 
  I've gone through the mail, and I've got all evening to hear your 
  response.  Whatever it is, I wish you and your wife a Happy New 


> From: jampot at roadrunner.com
  To: ophite at gmail.com
> Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 15:35:29 -0800
> CC: 
  vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Gnostic 
> So, let me see if I have this 
> Traditional Roman Catholic's were instrumental if 
  not wholly responsible for 
> the European theatre of WWII. (I guess 
  this makes the followers traditional 
> Shinto responsible for the 
> Christians waged a religious war against the stone 
  age natives in the 
> Americas
> The Troubles in Ireland 
  were actually a conflict over religious dogma.
> The conflict 
  in Yugoslavia was primarily Christian aggression and not ethnic 
  rivalry and tensions.
> Etc. etc, etc.
> You're 
  right that one or more Christians were involved in the examples you 
  gave and by your definition I suppose that must make them examples of deaths 
> caused by Christians. I would contend that traditional Christianity 
  in and 
> of itself had precious little to do with these conflicts most 
  especially in 
> the cases of the Taipeng rebellion (class warfare led 
  by a whack job who 
> thought he was Jesus' little brother.) The same 
  applies to The Lord's 
> Resistance Army of Sudan and God's Army in 
  Thailand and Burma. (Joseph Kony 
> and Johnny & Luther Htoo are 
  simply blood thirsty, mentally unstable little 
> savages not religious 
  Christian leaders) Both of these movements wrap misc. 
> scraps and 
  shards of Christianity around themselves but are in no way 
> associated 
  with traditional Christian thought.
> Next you admit that 
  absolutely none of this has even the slightest thing to 
> do with 
  Gier's bane and yet you suggest that the best possible thing for 
  Moscow would be death for this particular faith community. And you genuinely 
> wonder why some folks find you a mite intolerant?
> ----- Original 
  Message ----- 
> From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>
  To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
> Cc: 
  <nickgier at adelphia.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: 
  Saturday, December 29, 2007 12:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Gnostic 
> > On Dec 28, 2007 6:51 PM, g. 
  crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
> >> ...religious 
  fundamentalists--Christian, Muslim,
> >> Buddhist--are one of the 
  greatest dangers that the human race faces...
> >>
  >> Doug Wilson...is neck deep in the type of
> >> doctrines 
  that drive religious fanaticism...
> >>
> >> Wilson is 
  largely responsible for the split we now experience in our
> >> 
> >>
> >> A few questions if I 
> >>
> >> 1. Of all the deaths caused by religous 
  fundamentalists in the, how many
> >> were caused by Christians? 
  How many of the victims were Christian? Please
> >> try and 
  contain your answer to the last two centurys, please.
> >
  > Okay. Sure.
> >
> > We'll leave out Catholic complicity 
  and assistance in the fascist
> > regimes of Franco and Mussolini. We 
  can omit the Christian war against
> > the native peoples of the 
  Americas as well, because you're either
> > going to cast that as 
  'not that bad', an ethnic conflict, or
> > inevitable. This is where 
  Western Europeans rack up the majority of
> > their atrocities. If 
  you like, we can leave out the religious aspect
> > of colonialism 
  altogether--though that was indisputably more murderous
> > than any 
  other fundamentalist movement of the past two centuries.
> >
  > Let's start with the Catholic/Protestant split in Ireland. Add to 
> > the Catholic Croat/Orthodox Serbs/Muslim Armenian 
  internecine warfare
> > in the Balkans. Tack on the Christian 
  Phalange in Lebanon, responsible
> > for the Sabra and Shatila 
  massacres, among others. Hong Xiuquan and
> > the Taipeng rebellion. 
  The Lord's Resistance Army of Sudan. God's Army
> > in Thailand and 
> >
> > Western Europe, the area with which you would 
  be most familiar, lacks
> > recent atrocities largely because 
  previous atrocities were largely
> > successful at exterminating 
  other religious groups.
> >
> >> 2.How many of those 
  unfortunate occourances were/are attributable to 
> >> 
> >
> > None. Wilson is in the business of excusing 
  past atrocities, as he
> > lacks the power to create fresh 
> >
> >> 3.What is it you suggest should be done to 
  curb the murderous rampage 
> >> that
> >> is causing 
  this horrifying rift in the community, aside from spending an
> >> 
  excrusiating amount of time being tortured at 
> >> 
> >
> > Starving Wilson's church 
  to death using all powers short of state 
> > coercion.
> > Hope that helps.
> >
> > -- ACS
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