[Vision2020] Gnostic Accountability

Sat Dec 29 17:22:20 PST 2007

Mr. Schou's solution to the specious, community wide rift that Mr. Gier imagines Wilson is responsible for is contained in the second to the last line of the post I was responding to. It seems unambiguous.

"Starving Wilson's church to death using all powers short of state coercion."

g
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: keely emerinemix 
  To: g. crabtree ; Andreas Schou 
  Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 4:00 PM
  Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Gnostic Accountability

  Referring to Gary's response, below, regarding "intolerance" and Christ Church's opponents, I have a question that I know he would find pertinent.  When has Andreas or anyone else ever called for, worked for, or publicly hoped for "death for this particular faith community"?

  I'd like an end to this particular faith community's influence on the Palouse, yes.  I'd like to see the whole organization collapse in a heap of Spirit-led repentance and remorse, yes.  And I'd like to see it rise up again as a true "Christ" Church, working for reconciliation, justice, peace, truth, equality and the comfort of the afflicted -- absolutely.  But harm to any of its leaders, followers, or their families, many of whom, if they're women and children, feel they have no choice but to remain at least outwardly committed to the Kirk?  No way.  I have never prayed an imprecatory prayer in my life and I have never physically harmed another person in my life, except for once in self-defense two or three decades ago.  I won't start now, and I know Andreas and every other "Intolerista" well enough to know that they wouldn't, either.  

  So, Gary, what did you mean?  And do you include those in Kootenai County who bravely fought for the "death" of the Aryan Nations not too long ago in your condemnation of those who you feel are a "mite intolerant"?  Do tell.  I'm unpacked, I've gone through the mail, and I've got all evening to hear your response.  Whatever it is, I wish you and your wife a Happy New Year.

  Keely

  > From: jampot at roadrunner.com
  > To: ophite at gmail.com
  > Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 15:35:29 -0800
  > CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
  > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Gnostic Accountability
  > 
  > So, let me see if I have this straight.
  > 
  > Traditional Roman Catholic's were instrumental if not wholly responsible for 
  > the European theatre of WWII. (I guess this makes the followers traditional 
  > Shinto responsible for the pacific)
  > 
  > Christians waged a religious war against the stone age natives in the 
  > Americas
  > 
  > The Troubles in Ireland were actually a conflict over religious dogma.
  > 
  > The conflict in Yugoslavia was primarily Christian aggression and not ethnic 
  > rivalry and tensions.
  > 
  > Etc. etc, etc.
  > 
  > You're right that one or more Christians were involved in the examples you 
  > gave and by your definition I suppose that must make them examples of deaths 
  > caused by Christians. I would contend that traditional Christianity in and 
  > of itself had precious little to do with these conflicts most especially in 
  > the cases of the Taipeng rebellion (class warfare led by a whack job who 
  > thought he was Jesus' little brother.) The same applies to The Lord's 
  > Resistance Army of Sudan and God's Army in Thailand and Burma. (Joseph Kony 
  > and Johnny & Luther Htoo are simply blood thirsty, mentally unstable little 
  > savages not religious Christian leaders) Both of these movements wrap misc. 
  > scraps and shards of Christianity around themselves but are in no way 
  > associated with traditional Christian thought.
  > 
  > Next you admit that absolutely none of this has even the slightest thing to 
  > do with Gier's bane and yet you suggest that the best possible thing for 
  > Moscow would be death for this particular faith community. And you genuinely 
  > wonder why some folks find you a mite intolerant?
  > 
  > g
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>
  > To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
  > Cc: <nickgier at adelphia.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
  > Sent: Saturday, December 29, 2007 12:56 AM
  > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Gnostic Accountability
  > 
  > 
  > > On Dec 28, 2007 6:51 PM, g. crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:
  > >> ...religious fundamentalists--Christian, Muslim,
  > >> Buddhist--are one of the greatest dangers that the human race faces...
  > >>
  > >> Doug Wilson...is neck deep in the type of
  > >> doctrines that drive religious fanaticism...
  > >>
  > >> Wilson is largely responsible for the split we now experience in our
  > >> community...
  > >>
  > >> A few questions if I may:
  > >>
  > >> 1. Of all the deaths caused by religous fundamentalists in the, how many
  > >> were caused by Christians? How many of the victims were Christian? Please
  > >> try and contain your answer to the last two centurys, please.
  > >
  > > Okay. Sure.
  > >
  > > We'll leave out Catholic complicity and assistance in the fascist
  > > regimes of Franco and Mussolini. We can omit the Christian war against
  > > the native peoples of the Americas as well, because you're either
  > > going to cast that as 'not that bad', an ethnic conflict, or
  > > inevitable. This is where Western Europeans rack up the majority of
  > > their atrocities. If you like, we can leave out the religious aspect
  > > of colonialism altogether--though that was indisputably more murderous
  > > than any other fundamentalist movement of the past two centuries.
  > >
  > > Let's start with the Catholic/Protestant split in Ireland. Add to that
  > > the Catholic Croat/Orthodox Serbs/Muslim Armenian internecine warfare
  > > in the Balkans. Tack on the Christian Phalange in Lebanon, responsible
  > > for the Sabra and Shatila massacres, among others. Hong Xiuquan and
  > > the Taipeng rebellion. The Lord's Resistance Army of Sudan. God's Army
  > > in Thailand and Burma.
  > >
  > > Western Europe, the area with which you would be most familiar, lacks
  > > recent atrocities largely because previous atrocities were largely
  > > successful at exterminating other religious groups.
  > >
  > >> 2.How many of those unfortunate occourances were/are attributable to 
  > >> Wilson?
  > >
  > > None. Wilson is in the business of excusing past atrocities, as he
  > > lacks the power to create fresh ones.
  > >
  > >> 3.What is it you suggest should be done to curb the murderous rampage 
  > >> that
  > >> is causing this horrifying rift in the community, aside from spending an
  > >> excrusiating amount of time being tortured at 
  > >> www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier?
  > >
  > > Starving Wilson's church to death using all powers short of state 
  > > coercion.
  > >
  > > Hope that helps.
  > >
  > > -- ACS
  > > 
  > 
  > 
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