[Vision2020] Civility is a two-way street

[Ted Moffett]

Scott et. al.

You write as though you are Gary Crabtree's conscience in this matter,
when you write that "He's more than happy to move forward."  Let Gary
speak for himself.  Why are you speaking for him?

Also, Joe's recent response to Gary in this thread was correct in
pointing out that the assumption that Gary might have posted the
recent re-posting of Joe's private e-mail, was not based on
"non-existent evidence," as Gary claimed.  The fact Gary originally
posted this private message, and has disputed with Joe many times on
Vision2020, is evidence to suggest Gary might engage in this conduct
again, to undermine Joe's recent post with this subject heading,
responding to Atwood's Daily News Op-Ed.

Also, your argument immediately below, attempting to remove any
responsibility for objectionable list serve conduct on the part of
Gary for posting of a private e-mail, is questionable.  It is accepted
by almost all on this list serve that private e-mail not be posted to
the list.  If this was happening with regularity, it would certainly
undermine the health of this list, based in part on trust between
people for respect for their privacy.  I do not know all the details
of the case with Wilson and Morin you refer to, but I doubt the two
examples are precisely analogous.  I have received insulting private
e-mails from Vision2020 list members (along with a much larger
percentage of positive private responses!), but I have never responded
by posting these insulting private messages.

Scott wrote:

Sending Gary an insulting email was your fault.  You apologized.
Nothing more needs to be said.  Trying to pin any blame on Gary for
forwarding it v2020 is as weak to me as Doug Wilson's complaint
against Terry Morin for posting supposedly secret documents for the
whole world to see Doug as a rotten, lying skunk.
------------------
Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett


On 12/2/07, Scott Dredge <sdredge at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Joe,
>
> When this brouhaha first came to light, I recall you apologizing and Gary Crabtree accepting the apology and saying something to effect of "let's move on".  Gary isn't the one being petty about this and I'm sure he'd like nothing better than to move on to scoring more debate points on v2020 which is something he does very well being the master debater that he is.
>
> Sending Gary an insulting email was your fault.  You apologized.  Nothing more needs to be said.  Trying to pin any blame on Gary for forwarding it v2020 is as weak to me as Doug Wilson's complaint against Terry Morin for posting supposedly secret documents for the whole world to see Doug as a rotten, lying skunk.
>
> There's not much you can do about Dale or HeirDoug reposting it again and again.  They don't quite understand the whole "I'm sorry, I made a mistake, I'll try not to make the same one again" scenario.  What else would you expect from disciples of a rogue pastor who makes all sorts of ludicrous statements and never refutes them because in his own mind it's a weakness to admit to any mistake (no matter how painfully obvious)?
>
> My advice is that when Heirdoug plays this card again - and you know he will because he's not very creative - leave Gary out of the mix.  He's more than happy to move forward.
>
> -Scott
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net>
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2007 8:46:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Civility is a 2-way street.
>
>
> Ted writes: "...given Gary Crabtree was the fully
> disclosed source of the original posting of this private e-mail, in
> violation of the 'rule' that private messages not be posted to
> Vision2020, it is reasonable to assume he might engage in the same
>  conduct again, correct?"
>
> Gary writes: "Making assumptions based on nonexistent evidence is
>  generally
> ill advised."
>
> Your NAME was on the the posted letter. How is that a lack of evidence?
>
> For the record, I don't think you posted the recent letter. But you did
>  post the
> initial PRIVATE letter -- precisely so your Kirk friends could re-post
>  it over
> and over and over again. So it isn't exactly as if you are without
>  blame!
>
> I await your insults, fallacies, and evasions. If nothing else, they
>  provide a
> source of amusement to the other readers.
>
> -- Joe Campbell
>
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