[Vision2020] Craig's official statement
g. crabtree
jampot at roadrunner.com
Thu Aug 30 06:19:59 PDT 2007
The government should allow one and all to sit where ever they please on the governments bus. They shouldn't create anew bus for each entity that feels put upon and it should not tell others how to run their bus.
Civil rights and equal protection should be the same for everyone. It seems to me that using the force of government to create protected classes and special rights for some is how folks such as yourself force others to pay for your particular vision of how the country should be. In short, forcing your religion on others.
Want to help single moms and the handicapped? Fine, go for it. Their are many private institutions that do just that. Support them. Want to make it illegal to harass homosexuals and religious and ethnic minorities? Terrific, make it just as illegal as harassing CEO's, protestants, and white guys who struggle to make a living. Anything else is social engineering at gunpoint.
g
----- Original Message -----
From: keely emerinemix
To: g. crabtree ; Scott Dredge ; vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 7:26 PM
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Craig's official statement
Do I understand you to say, Gary, that civil rights legislation, including equal protection, is an example of the protected ones' being "unable to make their own way in the world without the help of mommy government"?
Does that mean that single moms, the disabled, ethnic and religious minorities, and, in most places other than Idaho, homosexuals, are simply whining loudly enough in their distress to require the mother-teat of equal protection, as you seem to put it? Or would you, like most people, agree that because society has historically discriminated against certain people-groups, and would undoubtedly continue to do so if given free reign, it is necessary that the government step in and enforce the ideals of American justice extracted from the Constitution?
Enlighten us, please. Because I have to say, I've never thought of civil rights legislation that way. I've always thought its purpose was to address inequality and injustice on the part of those in power, not to function as a bone thrown and a blankie offered to the oppressed to pacify and coddle them.
keely
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From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: sdredge at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:25:53 -0700
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official statement
Enacting hate crime legislation to provide special protection to a small (or large, for that matter) group who feel put upon is bad law. It is the very antithesis of equal protection. There is a major difference between denying rights and granting unique rights. Aside from the marriage issue, which we all know has nothing to do with marriage in the conventional sense, what rights are being denied homosexuals?
The specific arguments have indeed been clearly laid out time and again. What has yet to be explained rationally is why providing special considerations to less than 3% of the U.S. population is good for the country.
So, how about it? How exactly will the country become a better place if yet another group is added to the list of those unable to make their own way in the world without the help of mommy government?
g
----- Original Message -----
From: Scott Dredge
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official statement
I don't know Gary, is it possible? If someone happens to be in a position of power and is denying rights for homosexuals and homosexual couples that are already available for hetoresexuals and heterosexual couples, don't you think that they should be able clearly explain why they believe same sex marriage / hate crime / equal rights is bad for the country instead of just saying "I believe it's bad" without citing any specifics?
-Scott
----- Original Message ----
From: g. crabtree <jampot at roadrunner.com>
To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>; Scott Dredge <sdredge at yahoo.com>
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:25:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official statement
Leaving aside the question of Senator Craig's sexuality, did I miss the legislation that made it mandatory that all homosexuals march in lockstep with the whole same sex marriage/hate crime/pro special rights agenda? Is it not possible to be homosexual and sincerely believe that these things are bad for the country and vote accordingly? Apparently not, what the heck could I have been thinking...
g
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>
To: "Scott Dredge" <sdredge at yahoo.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official statement
> Hey, I don't have anything to prove here. I was just stating that,
> based upon what I had heard at the time, it sounded possible that he
> might have been innocent of the charges despite what he said in court.
> Not that he *was* innocent, not that I wanted him to be innocent, not
> that I even give a flying fsck whether he was innocent or not. That was
> based upon a story that detailed the crimes of touching another mans
> foot in the stall next to you and reaching under the partition.
>
> What a truly horrific thing for me to say. I should be ashamed of myself.
>
> At the time, I hadn't read the NY Times article that Tom posted. The
> standing outside the restroom door for two minutes looking through the
> crack thing falls neatly into the category of "odd behavior".
>
> So, ok, maybe he is a hypocrite. So here is another thought that will
> probably get me reviled as Satan's second cousin or something, but how
> do you avoid be hypocritical on some subjects when you are ostensibly
> representing your constituents? What do you do if you are inwardly
> pro-homosexual, but your constituency isn't? Were you elected to vote
> as you wish? Or were you elected to vote as your constituency wishes?
> If he's a hypocrite, he became one the day he courted the electorate
> that differed from his own personal views.
>
> Paul
>
> Scott Dredge wrote:
>> Oh give it up, Paul and Roger. Are you guys not paying attention? You can find Larry Craig's hypocrisy just about everywhere. Did you not see his press conference today? The first sentence out of his mouth was, "Thank you all very much for 'coming out' today" as if all the reporters and everyone else in the audience had some closeted secret that had come to light and they were owning up to it unlike himself. Criminy! If that ain't hypocrisy, I guess I don't know what hypocrisy is. Of course, maybe I don't know. Hmmm...let me think about that a bit...
>>
>> -Scott
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
>> To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>; Joe Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net>
>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:55:29 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official statement
>>
>> My sentiments also. I don't know where Craig stands on sexuality. Joe. maybe you could let us know were the hypocrisy is?
>> -----Original message-----
>> From: Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
>> Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:25:26 -0700
>> To: Joe Campbell joekc at adelphia.net
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official statement
>>
>>
>>> Sure, be my guest.
>>>
>>> You're welcome.
>>>
>>> Is he actively anti-homosexual or something? Despite the fact that he
>>> gave me a nomination to the Air Force Academy in 1984 (which turned me
>>> down) I haven't really followed his career that much.
>>>
>>> I'm just saying that I'd hate to be in that situation and not actually
>>> be guilty. Tapping your right foot. Who knew? I might also be tempted
>>> to just pay the damn fine and hope nobody notices, too.
>>>
>>> I do know I plan to keep both feet solidly on the floor for the duration
>>> next time I'm in an airport restroom.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Joe Campbell wrote:
>>>
>>>> Paul,
>>>>
>>>> You're not really that naive, are you? How about hypocrisy? Can we accuse him of that?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Joe Campbell
>>>>
>>>> --------------------
>>>>
>>>> The article I read in the Washington Post said that he had tapped the
>>>> foot of the person in the stall next him and reached under the
>>>> partition. Naive to ways of the dance of restroom stall courtship and
>>>> etiquette, I probably would have handed him some toilet paper blithely
>>>> assuming that his dispenser was empty.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't yet read the articles linked to earlier - so it's possible it
>>>> was more than that. But given what the Post said, I can't really accuse
>>>> him of much myself.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>
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>
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> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
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