[Vision2020] Craig's official statement

keely emerinemix kjajmix1 at msn.com
Wed Aug 29 19:26:09 PDT 2007


Do I understand you to say, Gary, that civil rights legislation, including equal protection, is an example of the protected ones' being "unable to make their own way in the world without the help of mommy government"?

Does that mean that single moms, the disabled, ethnic and religious minorities, and, in most places other than Idaho, homosexuals, are simply whining loudly enough in their distress to require the mother-teat of equal protection, as you seem to put it?  Or would you, like most people, agree that because society has historically discriminated against certain people-groups, and would undoubtedly continue to do so if given free reign, it is necessary that the government step in and enforce the ideals of American justice extracted from the Constitution?  

Enlighten us, please.  Because I have to say, I've never thought of civil rights legislation that way.  I've always thought its purpose was to address inequality and injustice on the part of those in power, not to function as a bone thrown and a blankie offered to the oppressed to pacify and coddle them. 

keely




From: jampot at roadrunner.com
To: sdredge at yahoo.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 15:25:53 -0700
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official statement










Enacting hate crime legislation to provide special 
protection to a small (or large, for that matter) group who feel put upon is bad 
law.  It is the very antithesis of equal protection. There is a major 
difference between denying rights and granting unique rights. Aside from the 
marriage issue, which we all know has nothing to do with marriage in the 
conventional sense, what rights are being denied homosexuals?
 
The specific arguments have indeed been clearly 
laid out time and again. What has yet to be explained rationally is why 
providing special considerations to less than 3% of the U.S. population is good 
for the country.
 
So, how about it? How exactly will the country 
become a better place if yet another group is added to the list of those unable 
to make their own way in the world without the help of  mommy 
government?
 
g

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  Scott Dredge 
  
  To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 9:42 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's 
  official statement
  

  
  I 
  don't know Gary, is it possible?  If someone happens to be in a position 
  of power and is denying rights for homosexuals and homosexual couples that are 
  already available for hetoresexuals and heterosexual couples, don't you think 
  that they should be able clearly explain why they believe same sex marriage / 
  hate crime / equal rights is bad for the country instead of just saying "I 
  believe it's bad" without citing any specifics?

-Scott


  ----- 
  Original Message ----
From: g. crabtree 
  <jampot at roadrunner.com>
To: Paul Rumelhart 
  <godshatter at yahoo.com>; Scott Dredge <sdredge at yahoo.com>
Cc: 
  vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:25:46 
  AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official statement


  

  Leaving aside the question of Senator Craig's 
  sexuality, did I miss the legislation that made it mandatory that all 
  homosexuals march in lockstep with the whole same sex marriage/hate crime/pro 
  special rights agenda? Is it not possible to be homosexual and sincerely 
  believe that these things are bad for the country and vote accordingly? 
  Apparently not, what the heck could I have been thinking...
   
  g
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>
  To: "Scott Dredge" <sdredge at yahoo.com>
  Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
  Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:45 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official 
  statement
  
> Hey, I don't have anything to prove here.  I was just stating 
  that, 
> based upon what I had heard at the time, it sounded possible 
  that he 
> might have been innocent of the charges despite what he said 
  in court.  
> Not that he *was* innocent, not that I wanted him to 
  be innocent, not 
> that I even give a flying fsck whether he was 
  innocent or not.  That was 
> based upon a story that detailed the 
  crimes of touching another mans 
> foot in the stall next to you and 
  reaching under the partition.
> 
> What a truly horrific thing for 
  me to say.  I should be ashamed of myself.
> 
> At the time, 
  I hadn't read the NY Times article that Tom posted.  The 
> 
  standing outside the restroom door for two minutes looking through the 
  
> crack thing falls neatly into the category of "odd behavior".
> 
  
> So, ok, maybe he is a hypocrite.  So here is another thought 
  that will 
> probably get me reviled as Satan's second cousin or 
  something, but how 
> do you avoid be hypocritical on some subjects when 
  you are ostensibly 
> representing your constituents?  What do you 
  do if you are inwardly 
> pro-homosexual, but your constituency 
  isn't?  Were you elected to vote 
> as you wish?  Or were you 
  elected to vote as your constituency wishes?  
> If he's a 
  hypocrite, he became one the day he courted the electorate 
> that 
  differed from his own personal views.
> 
> Paul
> 
> 
  Scott Dredge wrote:
>> Oh give it up, Paul and Roger.  Are you 
  guys not paying attention?  You can find Larry Craig's hypocrisy just 
  about everywhere.  Did you not see his press conference today?  The 
  first sentence out of his mouth was, "Thank you all very much for 'coming out' 
  today" as if all the reporters and everyone else in the audience had some 
  closeted secret that had come to light and they were owning up to it unlike 
  himself. Criminy!  If that ain't hypocrisy, I guess I don't know what 
  hypocrisy is.  Of course, maybe I don't know.  Hmmm...let me think 
  about that a bit...
>>
>> -Scott
>>
>> 
  ----- Original Message ----
>> From: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
>> 
  To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>; Joe 
  Campbell <joekc at adelphia.net>
>> Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:55:29 AM
>> Subject: 
  Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official statement
>>
>> My 
  sentiments also. I don't know where Craig stands on sexuality. Joe. maybe you 
  could let us know were the hypocrisy is?
>> -----Original 
  message-----
>> From: Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
>> 
  Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:25:26 -0700
>> To: Joe Campbell joekc at adelphia.net
>> 
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official 
  statement
>>
>>   
>>> Sure, be my 
  guest.
>>>
>>> You're 
  welcome.
>>>
>>> Is he actively anti-homosexual or 
  something?  Despite the fact that he 
>>> gave me a 
  nomination to the Air Force Academy in 1984 (which turned me 
>>> 
  down) I haven't really followed his career that 
  much.
>>>
>>> I'm just saying that I'd hate to be in 
  that situation and not actually 
>>> be guilty.  Tapping your 
  right foot.  Who knew?  I might also be tempted 
>>> to 
  just pay the damn fine and hope nobody notices, 
  too.
>>>
>>> I do know I plan to keep both feet 
  solidly on the floor for the duration 
>>> next time I'm in an 
  airport restroom.
>>>
>>> 
  Paul
>>>
>>> Joe Campbell 
  wrote:
>>>     
>>>> 
  Paul,
>>>>
>>>> You're not really that naive, 
  are you? How about hypocrisy? Can we accuse him of 
  that?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Joe 
  Campbell
>>>>
>>>> 
  --------------------
>>>>
>>>> The article I 
  read in the Washington Post said that he had tapped the 
>>>> 
  foot of the person in the stall next him and reached under the 
  
>>>> partition. Naive to ways of the dance of restroom stall 
  courtship and 
>>>> etiquette, I probably would have handed him 
  some toilet paper blithely 
>>>> assuming that his dispenser 
  was empty.
>>>>
>>>> I haven't yet read the 
  articles linked to earlier - so it's possible it 
>>>> was more 
  than that. But given what the Post said, I can't really accuse 
  
>>>> him of much 
  myself.
>>>>
>>>> 
  Paul
>>>>
>>>> 
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>>> 
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>>>  
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>>>                
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>>> 
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>>
>> 
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  services made available by First Step Internet, 
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>>                
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>> 
  =======================================================
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>>  serving the 
  communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
  
>>                
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> 
> 
  =======================================================
> List 
  services made available by First Step Internet, 
> serving the 
  communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
  
>               
  http://www.fsr.net                       
  
>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> 
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