[Vision2020] Trinity Festival protest

[Joe Campbell]

Crabtree,

First, if what you say below is true you have no basis to ever criticize me. We've never 
met. You've never seen any of my actions. The only evidence you have of my character is 
based on my words. But words aren't actions and only actions may be criticized 
(according to your philosophy). By your definition of ‘action,’ I haven’t done anything to 
Christ Church and neither have most of the CC critics.

So if what you say below is correct, then you should apologize for every criticism of a 
CC critic that you've made. If you don’t apologize, I’ll assume that even you know that 
there is something wrong with your argument.

Second, you accuse me of manipulating words but all I’ve done is draw the conclusion

All non-Christians hate God

>From this quote supplied by Doug:

"In fact, it is this very freedom that non-Christians fear,
for it replaces the messianic State, which they trust,
with the sovereign God, whom they hate."

If you can explain to me how it is that the first claim does not follow from the quote, I 
would be much obliged. I know you prefer grand generalizations to details but still I ask.

--
Joe Campbell

=============
Mr. Campbell,

There is a big difference between how people ARE treated and how someone might feel after misinterpreting (or having it misinterpreted for them) any given message. One you have direct control over and are completely responsible for the other is left in the hands of the recipient to do with what they will. If they decide to "feel" bad I'm afraid that there is little to be done for it. As I have said before, it's my understanding that Mr. Wilson's congregation is made up of a variety of people including minorities and homosexuals. (a recent interview in the LMT on seminary student Chris Morris leaps immediately to mind) 

There's an old saying that periodically makes the rounds that states "actions speak louder than words." I think that this particularly applies when the words have been manipulated by others to stir up the maximum level of foment. On the other hand the actions that I have been able to see with my own two eyes lead me to believe that the community in question is ultimately benign. 

If you want to make an effective case against this group, stop reinterpreting fellow detractors reinterpretations of books, articles and news stories and point to solid evidence of the horrors that you claim are occurring on a daily basis. I'm guessing that while you and yours are long on rhetoric your short on specifics. Till you can turn that equation around I'm afraid that it's you that is "irrelevant."

g
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Campbell" <joekc at adelphia.net>
To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
Cc: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>; "Warren Hayman" <whayman at adelphia.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 2:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival protest


Gary,

For the most part, your points below are irrelevant. My concern for Wilson is not with 
how he treats the women in his family. My concern is not even about how he'd treat me, 
or how Doug Farris would treat me, were I to join either for dinner. I feel pretty confident 
that they'll treat me just fine -- white, Christian male that I am.

My concern is about how my Jewish friends might be treated. My concern is how my 
Muslim, lesbian, and atheist friends ARE being treated, given Wilson’s threatening and 
divisive speech. I worry about the feelings of my Christian, African-American friends, 
given Wilson’s justification of slavery.

I noticed that you haven't said anything about this view:

All non-Christians hate God,

which was apparently endorsed by some of your Kirk friends. I imagine that it will take 
awhile to piece together a justification for this, or even to explain how it is that folks can 
say something so stupid yet complain when they get criticism back in response.

--
Joe Campbell

---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote: 

=============
Other works by this author causes me to firmly doubt that he is likely to 
refer to his mother, sister, wife, daughters, daughters in law or grand 
daughters as "chattel." Prove me wrong.

g
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>
To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>
Cc: "Warren Hayman" <whayman at adelphia.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>; "Joe 
Campbell" <joekc at adelphia.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 5:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival protest


>>  I recommend _Her Hand in
>> Marriage_ or _Reforming Marriage_, in which Doug discusses how a woman
>> is to pass as chattel between her father and her future husband.
>>
>> Quite simply it does not.
>
> And how, Gary, did you come to be aware of this, given that you have
> read neither book?
>
> -- ACS
>