[Vision2020] the plan, Gary (was Trinity Fest protest)

Thu Aug 9 09:15:14 PDT 2007

Nice try, Gary.The context was evident in my post, wherein I stated -- and reiterate now -- that Doug Wilson wasn't eager to discuss his views on levying the Mosaic civil code (death or exile) against homosexuals once those views became known and once he felt the fire that resulted.  He will tell you, Ben Merkle will tell you, Doug Jones will tell  you, and Credenda/Agenda will tell you that they don't mean NOW, today, in this particular epoch of history, and how awful that people like me say they do.  They don't want to round up my gay friends and kill them now, you big silly.  They don't think adulterers today should be peppered with old cinderblock from the silos downtown, and they don't think pedophiles, for example, should be exiled this very minute.  Goodness, no!  That would make them, well, unpopular.  Shunned, perhaps.  Maybe even denounced with vigor in the public square.No, Gary, they mean they want that WHEN they, as part of Christ's church, take dominion over society in every possible way.  While I doubt that'll happen, say, while I'm in Denver, make no mistake that they do believe it will happen, and they do intend to bring us back to the law, standards, and sanctions of Moses.  I don't believe, by the way, that Jesus intends for their moral vision of the future to be realized in that way, but their rhetoric has a chilling effect on community and a devastating effect on evangelism.  But then again, Wilson believes that what most Christians call "revival" is a silly exercise in impotent arrogance or immature pleading, so I doubt that the poisoning of Gospel witness is forefront in their minds.The fact that Doug Wilson believes the three primary moral evils of our day are represented by feminists, abortionists, and sodomites -- a vicious term I use only to illustrate my point -- ought to cause you some concern.  That they have a specific means by which to eliminate these threats in their committed hope for a world under what they believe to be the Lordship of Christ and his people is demonstrable,.  If you're a straight, Christian, pro-fetal life white guy, you may not have a problem with it.  I'm a straight, white, Christian pro-life feminist, and I do.I plan to spend the weekend with a couple of hundred committed Trinitarian feminists from all over the world.  We'll discuss how to denounce racism, sexism, and classism from the Scriptures, and how to equip women and men to exercise their gifts and callings under the guidance and with the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.  We'll hear of communities where "ramped-up Sabbath feasting" consists of a little water, a little rice, a few roots and berries, and where the witness of those believers makes such extravagant Sabbath feasting look downright hedonistic by comparison.  I'll meet Third World women who lead congregations and whose work has transformed entire villages, and I'll meet men who sacrificially give to support the ministries of their wives, mothers, and sisters.  I'll meet people who know firsthand the bitter sting of persecution; I'll be even less likely when I return to listen to bleating cries of persecution by fattened lambs whose worse suffering is levied upon them by their own shepherds.keely"Were I to be again reduced to the chains of slavery, next to that enslavement, I should regard being the slave of a religious master the greatest calamity that could befall me.  For of all slaveholders whom whom I have ever met, religious slaveholders were the worst.  I have ever found the meanest and basest, the most cruel and cowardly, of all others.  It was my unhappy lot not only to belong to a religious slaveholder, but to live in a community of such religionists."  Frederick Douglass, abolitionist, feminist, and former slaveFrom: jampot at roadrunner.comTo: kjajmix1 at msn.com; ophite at gmail.comCC: lfalen at turbonet.com; joekc at adelphia.net; vision2020 at moscow.comSubject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival protestDate: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 07:08:53 -0700

Ms. Mix claims the issue of the death penalty and 
homosexuality have not been addressed together. From the references I 
cited:

"On the one hand, we are being attacked for wanting to execute homosexuals, WHICH WE DO NOT, (my emphasis added) and on 
the other hand, we are attacked for favoring homosexual marriages, which we do 
not favor."

"Homosexuals commit sodomy, heterosexuals commit adultery, and thieves 
steal. Welcome to planet earth. But Jesus came to forgive sins. Christ saves 
sinners, all kinds. Not only that, but He welcomes them into His 
church."

It would seem that the issue has been clearly addressed. I have to 
guess that what Ms. Mix means is that it has not been addressed in a manner that 
she finds personally palatable. Something involving abject apology 
for a position not held and seppuku perhaps?

g

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  keely emerinemix 

  To: g. crabtree ; Andreas Schou 
  Cc: lfalen ; Joe Campbell ; vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 1:26 
  PM
  Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Trinity 
  Festival protest
  No, Gary, your ease-of-search experience does not refute my 
  pious contention that Christ Church has been terribly reticent in discussing 
  its views on homosexuality and the death penalty -- as a single issue.  
  Not "on homosexuality," and then, "on the death penalty," but on "the death 
  penalty as a possible punishment for homosexuality."  You work in a field 
  that requires exactitude and specificity; why you're content with deception 
  and evasion posing as a legitimate virtue is beyond me.I only ask that 
  Wilson, et al, not feign bewilderment when they're accused of teaching ugly 
  and divisive doctrine, and then ask us to accept their convoluted explanations 
  just because they're spoken in English, employ biting wit, or come from the 
  lips of a clergymember or elder.  In other words, say what you mean, mean 
  what you say, and take the flack and the accolades that follow.Pretty 
  simple, eh?keely"Were I to be again reduced to the 
  chains of slavery, next to that enslavement, I should regard being the slave 
  of a religious master the greatest calamity that could befall me.  For of 
  all slaveholders whom whom I have ever met, religious slaveholders re the 
  worst.  I have ever found the meanest and basest, the most cruel and 
  cowardly, of all others.  It was my unhappy lot not only to belong to a 
  religious slaveholder, but to live in a community of such religionists."  
  Frederick Douglass, abolitionist, feminist, and former slave> From: 
  jampot at roadrunner.com> To: ophite at gmail.com> CC: 
  kjajmix1 at msn.com; lfalen at turbonet.com; joekc at adelphia.net; 
  vision2020 at moscow.com> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival 
  protest> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 12:38:01 -0700> > Mr. 
  Schou asks as though there were sinister implications to the answer:> 
  > Gary, who's been feeding you these links?> > Why would 
  any "feeding" be required? C/A is available online free of charge.> 
  > Wilson's blog is there for all to see. It has an excellent search 
  function.> > Cannon Press has a complete listing of available 
  materials for your pleasure > on their website.> > I hope 
  that this answers your burning question. It was the work of but a few > 
  moments to obtain the references I listed in my post. My question for you 
  > would be why would it matter? The simple fact that they exist seems 
  to > effectively rebut the assertion that CC is " terribly reticent to 
  discuss > its views on the death penalty for homosexuals."> 
  > g> > > > -- Original Message ----- 
  > From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>> To: "g. 
  crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com>> Cc: "keely emerinemix" 
  <kjajmix1 at msn.com>; "lfalen" <lfalen at turbonet.com>; > "Joe 
  Campbell" <joekc at adelphia.net>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>> 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:16 AM> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 
  Trinity Festival protest> > > >> Before swallowing 
  Mix, Campbell, Schou, and others of their ilk's > >> 
  breathless> >> assertions one would be well advised to go to the 
  source and review what > >> has> >> actually been 
  said. Since Ms. Mix mentions Credenda/Agenda one might do > >> 
  well> >> to start there. Please see Volume 16 number 2. The 
  entire issue is > >> devoted> >> to the topic and 
  nowhere will you see any evidence of the claims made by> >> CC's 
  usual antagonists. After dealing with that disappointment one might > 
  >> go> >> to Doug Wilson's own personnel blog and read 
  entries on 06/01/05 and> >> 08/30/05, the latter specifically and 
  in detail speaking to the > >> ridiculous> >> notion 
  expressed by our resident propagandists. And finally for the > >> 
  reading> >> challenged, one can listen to Wilson in his very own 
  voice speak to the> >> topic on the Cannon Press CD "The Sin of 
  Homophobia" lecture C 03/31/04.> >> > Yes, Gary. Why don't 
  we review what's been said:> >> > Slavery is a sin. 
  Slavery is not a sin.> >> > The Civil War unjustly crushed 
  the South. The Civil War was the> > judgment of an angry God on a 
  corrupt society.> >> > Homosexuality should be punished 
  with death. Homosexuality should not> > be punished with death. 
  Homosexuality should be punished with exile.> > Gay marriage is 
  wrong. Gay marriage is the judgment of an angry God on> > the United 
  States.> >> > The United States should be ruled according 
  to Mosaic law now. The> > United States should not be ruled 
  according to Mosaic law yet. The> > United States should only be 
  ruled according to Mosaic law when> > Americans are ready to be 
  ruled according to Mosaic law.> >> > Lying is wrong. 
  "Covenental lying," i.e. "lying to those outside the> > church," is 
  an exception.> >> > We consider Moscow a "tactical point." 
  We do not consider Moscow a> > "tactical point." We don't know what 
  you're talking about.> >> > We consider ourselves 
  Christian Reconstructionists. We don't consider> > ourselves 
  Christian Reconstructionists.> >> > Poor Doug Wilson, 
  always being misinterpreted -- and always stuck> > between appeasing 
  his local critics and not upsetting the> > mouth-breathing racists 
  who buy his books.> >> > Also, Gary, who's been feeding 
  you these links?> >> > -- ACS> > > 
  > 

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