[Vision2020] Chemical warfare? (Was Trinity Festival protest)

Fri Aug 3 07:43:20 PDT 2007

Oh, Gary.  You really can do better than this, I think.  Nobody is suggesting the "bug spray to kill 'em all" approach you offer as a necessary conclusion to Rose's spider metaphor.  That would entail outlawing their right to assemble, vandalizing their places of business rather than simply deciding not to patronize them, and physically harming or killing them.  It would look, perhaps, like an angry mob storming the Trinity Fest and hurling lite beer and granola bars at them while spewing obscenities, or breaking into the worship service and singing "The Times, They Are A-Changin.'"  In short, Gary, it would look nothing like a peaceful assembly of people who hate the messages that Christ Church proclaims.  It might be because they simply  hate racist, sexist, homophobic, combative, rude, puerile beliefs simply on their own terms, or, like me, they hate those things because they believe them to be an affront to Jesus Christ, especially when done in His name.  But it wouldn't look like a "kills 'em dead" approach to community dialog.  No, I believe the "kills 'em dead" approach is more accurately summed up by those who cling to their belief that when they're in power, they can (finally!) invoke Mosaic Law to rid their world of heretics, gays, disobedient children, adulterers, men who won't take headship at home, and women who do.  Do you know of any groups like that, Gary?  I'll give you a hint:  look downtown tonight.  It won't be the ones waving placards.keely"And these women that you spit on as they try to change their worlds/Are immune to your consultations . . . they're quite aware of what they're going through"(With apologies to David Bowie)From: jampot at roadrunner.comTo: sslund at roadrunner.com; godshatter at yahoo.com; london at moscow.comDate: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 07:19:00 -0700CC: vision2020 at moscow.comSubject: Re: [Vision2020] Chemical warfare? (Was Trinity Festival protest)

The spider analogy that you so lovingly quote seems 
the perfect follow up to the statements made by Ms. Mix. The cute little story 
about the creatures in the closet begs the question, what do we do with the 
little dears once we imagine we discern their true nature. Try to refuse 
them land, refuse them sustenance, refuse them a voice? When those measures 
fail, what I would have to conclude from what you and your friends 
have posted the answer is to break out the bug spray. Perhaps one 
of the cyanide based insecticides such as Zyclon-B would 
be appropriate?

g

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 
  Saundra 
  Lund 
  To: 'Paul Rumelhart' ; 'Bill London' 

  Cc: 'v2020' 
  Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 8:20 
  PM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity 
  Festival protest

  Hi Paul & Visionaries:

  <sigh>  It's a good question, but I sometimes 
  feel like people haven't been paying attention over the last few 
  years.

  I'm a Christian, and I absolutely do *not* agree with 
  the Kirk's . . . theology.  I don't believe in forced salvation (if they 
  can't win us over by conversion, then they want the teeth of the law to force 
  the rest of us to act/behave as they think we ought to behave), and it really 
  disturbs me the way God's word has been perverted by Kirk hierarchy. 

  However, IMHO, of larger concern is the Kirk hierarchy’s 
  refusal to follow the "secular" rules and laws the rest of us are expected to 
  follow.  The rules are for others, not for them.  Lying under oath 
  -- no problem.  Lying to government officials -- again, no problem.  
  Thumbing their noses at planning and zoning regulations -- absolutely no 
  problem.  Failing to live up to the very limited requirements of tax 
  exemption – they excel at that.  Parking where they have no right -- no 
  problem.  Withholding information vital to the safety of our community’s 
  children – absolutely no problem.  And on and on and on the list 
  goes.  In essence, while there are wonderful individual Kirk members, 
  Christ Church itself has proven time and again that it is the quintessential 
  Bad Neighbor.

  My dear friend Rose Huskey blogged on this very topic 
  recently -- you might want to read what she had to say:
  http://cleaning-house.org/?p=591

  I'm sure she won't mind if I repost here:
  "Nests of Pests

  Temperatures in Moscow hover in the 90’s during the dog 
  days of August but that’s not why many community members are boiling. For the 
  past three years we have endured the civic embarrassment generated by the 
  pseudo-Ceilidh, pseudo-Calvinistic jamboree known as the Trinity Fest. Members 
  of the Confederation of Reformed Evangelicals aka CREC, view Moscow as their 
  Rome, Jerusalem, Mecca, and Ganges River. They gather in August to sit at the 
  knee of Massa Doug Wilson, (the brains behind the beards) greedily ingesting 
  the racist, sexist, homophobic preaching disgorged from his pie hole. It has 
  been my habit to refrain from going to town during the week that Doug attempts 
  to claim Moscow as his papal seat. However, this year I will join with friends 
  to acquaint (or reacquaint as the case may be) CREC visitors and Kirk members 
  with long-standing community values. Flyers have been posted throughout 
  downtown Moscow and in the windows of supportive businesses asking folks 
  to:

  [T]ake a stand for 
  traditional American values of tolerance and diversity as we gather to voice 
  our collective community opposition to the racist, sexist, homophobic agenda 
  of Christ Church, New St. Andrews College, The Confederation of Reformed 
  Evangelical Churches and the Association of Classical and Christian 
  Schools.

  Uninformed readers might (mistakenly) believe that it 
  is, at best, ironic to take a stand for tolerance and diversity while 
  simultaneously opposing a “religious” celebration. The following analogy might 
  help to clarify my position. Suppose you wake up one fine morning and notice - 
  in a dark corner of your closet - a sweet little nest of spiders. On the whole 
  you like spiders (Charlotte’s Web was your favorite childhood book), so you 
  adopt a live and let live attitude toward the little critters. Five or six 
  days later you have an opportunity to take a closer look at mama spider. She 
  is a glossy black color, and son of a gun, has a red hour glass on her belly. 
  This is not what you had in mind when you believed your closet was big enough 
  for you and the spiders, was it? An apathetic reaction is not in your best 
  interest. Silently acquiescing to bigotry is as risky and stupid as 
  deliberately sharing your closet with black widow spiders. And while the 
  Brotherhood of the Kirk always exacts a price from their critics the cost of 
  going along to get along is much too high for me.

  Rose”

  HTH,
  Saundra LundMoscow, IDThe only thing 
  necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.- 
  Edmund Burke***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2007 
  through life plus 70 years, Saundra Lund.  Do not copy, forward, excerpt, 
  or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum without the express written 
  permission of the author.*****

  -----Original Message-----From: 
  vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf 
  Of Paul RumelhartSent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 7:19 PMTo: Bill 
  LondonCc: v2020Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival 
  protest

  Doesn't freedom of religion trump simple dislike for the 
  church or some of it's members?  If there are irregularities with how 
  they were granted permits or something, then that should be looked into.  
  But why disturb their festival?  What is their political and economic 
  agendas that these activists are protesting?  

  Granted, people have a right to protest as long as they 
  keep it civil and follow the law.  It's just that I have never understood 
  why people are so opposed to them.  Most of the objections I've heard 
  have to do with zoning laws and permits for the NSA school.  That sounds 
  like a problem with the authorities and not Christ Church.  There are 
  lots of comments about their theology (Southern slavery, odd ideas about how 
  they think a "biblical" society would work, etc), but so what?  They have 
  every right to believe as they wish, whether or not I think the lot of them 
  have been standing too long in the hot sun with no hat.

  I don't agree theologically with them at all.  But 
  who am I to try to tell them they can't expand themselves?

  I have great respect for you all as community leaders, I 
  just think you going too far sometimes.

  Paul

  Bill London wrote: 

  Protest Planned for Christ Church Trinity Festival

  A group of local activists invite the community to join their demonstration of 
  opposition to the political and economic agenda of Moscow's Christ Church and 
  the church's Trinity Festival, announced spokesperson Selena Rosewater. 

  The group will meet in Friendship Square in downtown Moscow at 7:30pm on 
  Friday, August 3, and then march to the Trinity Festival event at the 
  Kenworthy Performing Arts Center.

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