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Oh, Gary. <br><br>You really can do better than this, I think. Nobody is suggesting the "bug spray to kill 'em all" approach you offer as a necessary conclusion to Rose's spider metaphor. That would entail outlawing their right to assemble, vandalizing their places of business rather than simply deciding not to patronize them, and physically harming or killing them. It would look, perhaps, like an angry mob storming the Trinity Fest and hurling lite beer and granola bars at them while spewing obscenities, or breaking into the worship service and singing "The Times, They Are A-Changin.'" <br><br>In short, Gary, it would look nothing like a peaceful assembly of people who hate the messages that Christ Church proclaims. It might be because they simply hate racist, sexist, homophobic, combative, rude, puerile beliefs simply on their own terms, or, like me, they hate those things because they believe them to be an affront to Jesus Christ, especially when done in His name. But it wouldn't look like a "kills 'em dead" approach to community dialog. <br><br>No, I believe the "kills 'em dead" approach is more accurately summed up by those who cling to their belief that when they're in power, they can (finally!) invoke Mosaic Law to rid their world of heretics, gays, disobedient children, adulterers, men who won't take headship at home, and women who do. <br><br>Do you know of any groups like that, Gary? I'll give you a hint: look downtown tonight. It won't be the ones waving placards.<br><br>keely<br><br><br><br><span style="font-style: italic;">"And these women that you spit on as they try to change their worlds/</span><br style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;">Are immune to your consultations . . . they're quite aware of what they're going through"</span><br>(With apologies to David Bowie)<br><br><br><blockquote><hr>From: jampot@roadrunner.com<br>To: sslund@roadrunner.com; godshatter@yahoo.com; london@moscow.com<br>Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2007 07:19:00 -0700<br>CC: vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Chemical warfare? (Was Trinity Festival protest)<br><br>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">The spider analogy that you so lovingly quote seems
the perfect follow up to the statements made by Ms. Mix. The cute little story
about the creatures in the closet begs the question, what do we do with the
little dears once we imagine we discern their true nature. Try to refuse
them land, refuse them sustenance, refuse them a voice? When those measures
fail, what I would have to conclude from what you and your friends
have posted the answer is to break out the bug spray. Perhaps one
of the cyanide based insecticides such as Zyclon-B would
be appropriate?</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2"></font> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">g</font></div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(0, 0, 0); padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- </div>
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="sslund@roadrunner.com" href="mailto:sslund@roadrunner.com">Saundra
Lund</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b> <a title="godshatter@yahoo.com" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">'Paul Rumelhart'</a> ; <a title="london@moscow.com" href="mailto:london@moscow.com">'Bill London'</a>
</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Cc:</b> <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">'v2020'</a> </div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 02, 2007 8:20
PM</div>
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Trinity
Festival protest</div>
<div><br></div>
<div class="EC_Section1">
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">Hi Paul & Visionaries:</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"><sigh> It's a good question, but I sometimes
feel like people haven't been paying attention over the last few
years.</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">I'm a Christian, and I absolutely do *not* agree with
the Kirk's . . . theology. I don't believe in forced salvation (if they
can't win us over by conversion, then they want the teeth of the law to force
the rest of us to act/behave as they think we ought to behave), and it really
disturbs me the way God's word has been perverted by Kirk hierarchy.
</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">However, IMHO, of larger concern is the Kirk hierarchy’s
refusal to follow the "secular" rules and laws the rest of us are expected to
follow. The rules are for others, not for them. Lying under oath
-- no problem. Lying to government officials -- again, no problem.
Thumbing their noses at planning and zoning regulations -- absolutely no
problem. Failing to live up to the very limited requirements of tax
exemption – they excel at that. Parking where they have no right -- no
problem. Withholding information vital to the safety of our community’s
children – absolutely no problem. And on and on and on the list
goes. In essence, while there are wonderful individual Kirk members,
Christ Church itself has proven time and again that it is the quintessential
Bad Neighbor.</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">My dear friend Rose Huskey blogged on this very topic
recently -- you might want to read what she had to say:</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"><a href="http://cleaning-house.org/?p=591" target="_blank">http://cleaning-house.org/?p=591</a></p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">I'm sure she won't mind if I repost here:</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">"Nests of Pests</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">Temperatures in Moscow hover in the 90’s during the dog
days of August but that’s not why many community members are boiling. For the
past three years we have endured the civic embarrassment generated by the
pseudo-Ceilidh, pseudo-Calvinistic jamboree known as the Trinity Fest. Members
of the Confederation of Reformed Evangelicals aka CREC, view Moscow as their
Rome, Jerusalem, Mecca, and Ganges River. They gather in August to sit at the
knee of Massa Doug Wilson, (the brains behind the beards) greedily ingesting
the racist, sexist, homophobic preaching disgorged from his pie hole. It has
been my habit to refrain from going to town during the week that Doug attempts
to claim Moscow as his papal seat. However, this year I will join with friends
to acquaint (or reacquaint as the case may be) CREC visitors and Kirk members
with long-standing community values. Flyers have been posted throughout
downtown Moscow and in the windows of supportive businesses asking folks
to:</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText" style="margin-left: 0.5in;">[T]ake a stand for
traditional American values of tolerance and diversity as we gather to voice
our collective community opposition to the racist, sexist, homophobic agenda
of Christ Church, New St. Andrews College, The Confederation of Reformed
Evangelical Churches and the Association of Classical and Christian
Schools.</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">Uninformed readers might (mistakenly) believe that it
is, at best, ironic to take a stand for tolerance and diversity while
simultaneously opposing a “religious” celebration. The following analogy might
help to clarify my position. Suppose you wake up one fine morning and notice -
in a dark corner of your closet - a sweet little nest of spiders. On the whole
you like spiders (Charlotte’s Web was your favorite childhood book), so you
adopt a live and let live attitude toward the little critters. Five or six
days later you have an opportunity to take a closer look at mama spider. She
is a glossy black color, and son of a gun, has a red hour glass on her belly.
This is not what you had in mind when you believed your closet was big enough
for you and the spiders, was it? An apathetic reaction is not in your best
interest. Silently acquiescing to bigotry is as risky and stupid as
deliberately sharing your closet with black widow spiders. And while the
Brotherhood of the Kirk always exacts a price from their critics the cost of
going along to get along is much too high for me.</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">Rose”</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">HTH,</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">Saundra Lund<br>Moscow, ID<br><br>The only thing
necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.<br>-
Edmund Burke<br><br>***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2007
through life plus 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt,
or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum without the express written
permission of the author.*****</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">-----Original Message-----<br>From:
vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com] On Behalf
Of Paul Rumelhart<br>Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 7:19 PM<br>To: Bill
London<br>Cc: v2020<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival
protest</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">Doesn't freedom of religion trump simple dislike for the
church or some of it's members? If there are irregularities with how
they were granted permits or something, then that should be looked into.
But why disturb their festival? What is their political and economic
agendas that these activists are protesting? </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">Granted, people have a right to protest as long as they
keep it civil and follow the law. It's just that I have never understood
why people are so opposed to them. Most of the objections I've heard
have to do with zoning laws and permits for the NSA school. That sounds
like a problem with the authorities and not Christ Church. There are
lots of comments about their theology (Southern slavery, odd ideas about how
they think a "biblical" society would work, etc), but so what? They have
every right to believe as they wish, whether or not I think the lot of them
have been standing too long in the hot sun with no hat.</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">I don't agree theologically with them at all. But
who am I to try to tell them they can't expand themselves?</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">I have great respect for you all as community leaders, I
just think you going too far sometimes.</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">Paul</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">Bill London wrote: </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">
</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">
Protest Planned for Christ Church Trinity Festival</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">
</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">
</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">
A group of local activists invite the community to join their demonstration of
opposition to the political and economic agenda of Moscow's Christ Church and
the church's Trinity Festival, announced spokesperson Selena Rosewater.
</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">
</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">
</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText">
The group will meet in Friendship Square in downtown Moscow at 7:30pm on
Friday, August 3, and then march to the Trinity Festival event at the
Kenworthy Performing Arts Center.</p>
<p class="EC_MsoPlainText"> </p></div>
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