[Vision2020] Is it Infanticide Vs. Abortion?

Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Fri Apr 27 11:07:00 PDT 2007

Reverend Keely,
  While I agree that the writing was a bit graphic and that he shouldn't proclaim someone is soulless, I suggest you reread your Bible, recheck with your God, and study abortion procedures if you think that the description of abortion is worse than those that ardently advocate for it in all forms and situations as a fundamental right. 

keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 at msn.com> wrote:
      P  {  margin:0px;  padding:0px  }  body  {  FONT-SIZE: 10pt;  FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma  }    This is beyond sickening and says much more about the writer than the object of his venom.  Absolutely disgusting.


  From: tonytime at clearwire.net
To: godshatter at yahoo.com
Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 07:14:16 -0700
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Is it Infanticide Vs. Abortion?

  No no no Paul, you misunderstood.  I was not referencing early term abortion, let alone miscarriage, when I mentioned Andreas' apparent lack of a soul in championing the killing of nearly - birthed children.  It was a reference to Intact D & E, A.K.A. partial birth abortion.  Andreas, grinning with glee and wringing his bloody hands, pleads for the "right" to stab a baby at the base of its skull and vacuum out its brain as its head collapses.  He would then toss it in the trash as his eyes rolled back in his head, his gory rampage presumably culminating in orgasmic bliss.
  I understand, Paul, that the truth can be unsettling.  Sometimes it can be shocking to learn the details of man's inhumanity to man, or in this case his offspring, but the truth they say will set us free.  Don't blame the messenger Paul.  Allow yourself to accept the horrendous reality of what the left is capable of.  I contend that it is Andreas and his ilk who are being harsh.  I am not advocating the premeditated killing of babies, they are.  Those who allow their intellect to entirely supplant their empathy and compassion, resulting in an emaciated and undernourished soul, are truly a danger to the rest of us.
  Stay strong Paul.
  The battle for our souls continues......
    ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Paul Rumelhart 
  To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
  Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 8:54 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Is it Infanticide Vs. Abortion?

Tony wrote:   
At least you are right about one thing: you are not qualified to render   medical advice.  Nor are you qualified to parent children.  That requires   compassion and a soul.    

Isn't that a little harsh?  Can't you have a stance on this subject different from yours and still have compassion and a soul?  How far do you take this "one too many" thing, anyway?  Should a woman who has a miscarriage be tried for involuntary manslaughter?  


Later,    -Tony  ----- Original Message -----   From: "Andreas Schou" <ophite at gmail.com>  To: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>  Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>  Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 12:03 AM  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Is it Infanticide Vs. Abortion? (was:   CatholicMajority On Supreme Court)        
On 4/25/07, Tony <tonytime at clearwire.net> wrote:      
Andreas, is it your contention then that intact dilation and extraction   is  performed on non-viable babies in EVERY case?  If so, why has such  information never been divulged before now by the proponents of this  "procedure?"  One suspects that there is, once again, more to the story   than  those on your side of this debate would have the public believe.        

It's my contention that it constitutes 0.2% of abortions, that it is  performed as an emergency surgery rather than elective abortion, and  that it is performed on non-viable fetuses.    Late-term abortions constitute 1.4% of all abortions performed in the  United States. Intact D&E constitutes 15% of those.  Back-of-the-envelope calculations tell me that that means that intact  D&E is used in roughly 0.2% of all abortion procedures in the United  States.    Kennedy's opinion is predicated on the fact that intact D&E is  medically equivalent to the interuterine dismemberment and suction of  the miscellaneous parts; that is, there is no circumstance under which  an intact D&E would save the life of the mother when other equivalent  processes could also be performed. This logic is designed specifically  to limit the ruling's scope.    Notably, Kennedy leaves an opening for specific review of the law when  he specifically mentions that the court would entertain a case 
 considering that specific issue -- that is, whether a late-term  abortion would be medically necessary for the health or life of the  mother. How Kennedy expects that a challenge would reach the Supreme  Court in the (roughly) 90 days before the case is mooted by the birth  of a child or the death of a fetus is an exercise best left to the  imagination (or alternately sniggered at behind your hand).        
That critical question aside, why are these handicapped infants not   simply  delivered and allowed to expire naturally, if that is indeed their fate,  rather than being unceremoniously dispatched?        

I am not qualified to deliver medical advice, but it is my  understanding that one cannot live without a functioning forebrain.  You, however, have left me somewhat unsure of this understanding.    -- ACS    * If you're interested, this Harpers article is a good overview of the  "partial-birth abortion" pseudo-debate:  http://www.harpers.org/archive/2004/11/0080278    * Yes, it's a blog post. However, it's an ob/gyn med student's  overview of the medical literature on intact D&E, as well as what  exactly was made illegal by the partial-birth abortion law:  http://www.agraphia.net/partial-birth-abortion-v-intact-dilation-extraction/    * This is a personal account of someone who did have an intact D&E due  to (extremely severe) spinal bifida. It might explain why someone  might want to do it:  http://lifestyle.msn.com/mindbodyandsoul/womenintheworld/articlemc.aspx?cp-documentid=4595719          

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