[Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: Taxes and Deadbeats

Thu Sep 28 08:30:40 PDT 2006

Paul,

 The problem with raising fuel and transportation taxes  is you raise the cost of everything else too. Everything you buy is  transported, and a lot of stuff today is made from petroleum products. 

  If you want to introduce new fuel sources I think future price of gas  has to be set in stone by the government to make the future predictable  of prices so competition knows what they have strive for. I would also  regulate gas like a monopoly. I agree 100% that people have to be  forced to buy alternatives, they won't do it on their own incentive. 

  The reason for the flat tax, after every dollar made past a certain  amount is so that it is fair and predictable. I am sure that it would  actually have to be higher than 10%, at least at first. But I think  anything more than  that is criminal.  

 I think  many services such as sewer, water, mail delivery, etc. should be  provided by private contractors. I think the same thing for schools,  and some types of protection services. 

 Image if starting in  the year 2010 you gave parents $5,000 for each Kindergartner they put  in private school instead. In 201l, $5000 for every 1st grader and  Kindergartner, in 2012 $5000 for each Kindergartner, 1st grader and 2nd  grader, and so on until 2022. 

 If the cost of educating a  child is $10,000 the school district would save $5000 per child that  does not enroll in publicly funded education. If 1/2 of all parents  enroll their child in a private school that would save Moscow property  taxpayers 25% on their bill. This increase competition among schools  and offer a greater diversity of educational opportunities for  children. 

 You could not just do vouchers for all kids at  once because the private sector  could not absorb that many kids  at once and it would bankrupt the school districts.  

 I  think another idea would be to have a duel option for students. That is  they get part of their education at home or another school, and the  rest of their education at the public school. A parent could have their  child go to school just one or two days a week to get basic instruction  and to ask questions about the subject, but do the rest of the  education at home. For example, a student would go to school on Monday  to get the materials then return on Friday to turn in homework, take a  test, and get help in areas where a parent or another source could not  help them.

 Another idea is Internet teaching. Only have the  kids physically come to school for one, two, or three days a week and  teaching the class on line. 

 As I know there are much more  brighter people out there than me, I think that there are lots more  ideas out there to save the taxpayer money in many other ways. 

  The problem is that the federal and state governments don't feel the  pinch to conserve because they think they have an inexhaustible supply  of money they can just demand from people when they want it. 

  Best,

  _DJA

Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:            To me, it comes down to the question of whether or not we should be  using taxes to change behaviors.  The high price of gas is the  only impetus I've ever seen that has actually pushed people towards  more fuel-efficient cars.  Simple awareness of the issues doesn't  seem to be anywhere near enough.  The engine tax might cause  people to stop buying cars that are massively inefficient.  This  would be beneficial in the long run.  I would prefer that the  money from this tax go directly towards basic research in alternative  energy and efforts to clean up toxic spills and the like.

  Anyway, nobody likes to pay taxes.  Yet everyone likes to drive on  the roads and have easy access to electricity and water and protection  from crime via the police, etc.  That takes money.  How else  do we get it if not through taxes?  How do you wean people off of  fossil fuels when Big Oil has the government (whatever flavor it is at  the moment) in it's pocket?

 I do like the idea of a flat-rate  tax, but if you eliminated all the other taxes I'd imagine that that  20% number would rise by quite a bit.  Anyway, it will never  happen because the people who would be hit the hardest are in power and  always will be barring an actual revolution.  They would just  redefine things so that the majority of money they make cannot legally  be called "income", even if it did pass.

  Paul

  Donovan Arnold wrote:  Dick,

  It is the federal and state government that is taxing the hell out of  me. Last time I checked they were both run by Republicans. 

  You are probably right though that Democrats would be taxing too. 

  I think the only difference between the two is what they spend the  taxes on. Democrats spend them on big government programs and  Republicans spend them on big missiles and tanks. 

  Either way, they are taking way too much. 

  I think a flat tax of 20% on every dollar made after 24K a year is a  fair rate that doesn't inflict poverty on too many people. But no other  taxes. That would give the government about 10% of total income of the  country. That is plenty. 

  Best,

  _DJA

    Dick Sherwin <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net> wrote:                            DJA writes: "Tell  these damn Republicans, to stop taxing the living !@#$% out of me. I  should not have to pay 25-33% of my income to the government to give  away to people that are probably living better than me. That is just  insane!"
      __________________________________________________

      That  would make sense except the Dems want to tax us even more.  Like  Paul, they would probably like to put a tax on our car engines.

      It  is time for this country to get away from the income tax and go to a  flat tax on consumption.  No loopholes, no refunds, no payments on  April 15.  You pay as you consume.  How simple is that?

      Dick S.

              -----  Original Message ----- 
        From:        Donovan Arnold 
        To:        Paul  Rumelhart ; Vision2020 
        Sent:  Wednesday, September 27, 2006 9:58 PM
        Subject:  [Vision2020] Taxes and Deadbeats

  Paul brings up taxes;

  I am sick of taxes. Damn, it seems like the more I make the more just  goes to the government. Just three months ago I was paying 10% of my  income in taxes, now that I got a raise, I got to pay 20%. Who am I  working for? Why does the government punish you for working hard and  getting a raise? They tax me on food, income, rent, property, interest  on savings (double tax), gas, beer, wine, tires, licensing my car,  school books, cleaning supplies, OTC drugs, and about everything else  the government can think of. 

 Why? Why doesn't the  government stop taxing everything to the point we are in poverty again?  Why can't we put a limit on the government's growth and expansion? Let  some of us spend our money that WE EARNED on our NEEDS instead of  spending it on worthless pointless wars, lazy people that won't get a  job, and people that won't take responsibility for their own actions  and life. It just makes me so mad that I work so hard for the  government and lazy people.

  NO MORE TAXES! PLEASE. I cannot stand it anymore. I cannot afford it. 

  Here is my idea.

  Eliminate welfare for the non-disabled. Give them loans instead. A  single mom that is young, give her loans, when her child turns 17, she  can start working and pay them off. Why should I have to pay for her  children, they are hers and the father. Make her and the father pay it  all back, with interest, and use that money to raise the next batch of  teenage pregnancies. 

 Prisoners, send them all to the  cheapest prison run states, like Alabama, Arizona, New Mexico, and  Georgia. Then make the prisons pay off the cost of imprisoning them  with labor instead of prison and working when they get out. Why should  they get free food, housing, and medical because they committed a  crime? Give them loans, then when they get out, charge for the loans,  plus interest to pay for the next batch of criminals. 

  Medical, create free trade with Canada, Mexico, and Europe for medical  supplies. This will drive the cost of medical care way down. Couldn't  you see it now? $1 for months prescription. That would be fantastic.

  Tell these damn Republicans, to stop taxing the living !@#$% out of me.  I should not have to pay 25-33% of my income to the government to give  away to people that are probably living better than me. That is just  insane!

  Best,

  _DJA

        Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:        Fellow  vision2020-ites,

  While wandering aimlessly through the internet one day (meaning that I 
  don't remember where I came across it), I found out that Japan has an 
  engine tax. The smaller and more fuel-efficient the engine, the smaller          
  the tax. The tax apparently ranges from about $40 to $800 or so 
  annually, iirc. People who own more than one car would presumably be 
  taxed on both. In these days of higher gas prices, global warming, and 
  pollution concerns, it seems to me like it could be a good idea for our          
  country to adopt. We could start with lower numbers and add it in to 
  the registration cost. That's presuming, I guess, that the registration          
  cost doesn't already include it. Does anyone know what that amount is 
  comprised of?

  Any thoughts on this? Is it a good idea?

  Paul

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=======================================================
 List services made available by First Step Internet, 
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
               http://www.fsr.net                       
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 List services made available by First Step Internet, 
 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   
               http://www.fsr.net                       
          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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