[Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: Taxes and Deadbeats
Dick Sherwin
rvrcowboy at clearwire.net
Thu Sep 28 08:10:03 PDT 2006
Paul writes: "To me, it comes down to the question of whether or not we should be using taxes to change behaviors."
---------------------------------------------------------
Paul,
As you know, the power to tax is the power to destroy. "Using taxes to change behaviors" is just another way of saying "Using taxes to control people." I do not believe that was the original intent of taxes. At any rate, the so-called sin taxes have not resulted in getting people to stop smoking or drinking so I doubt it would work anyway.
I believe it would be a very dangerous concept to use taxes to control behavior, thus control people. For example, the government could put a high tax on gun ownership to control who could, and could not, purchase a gun. Taxes may well be the dues citizens pay to live in a civilized society but they should never be used as a weapon of control. To me that would be the very definition of a WMD.
Dick S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Rumelhart
To: Vision2020
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: Taxes and Deadbeats
To me, it comes down to the question of whether or not we should be using taxes to change behaviors. The high price of gas is the only impetus I've ever seen that has actually pushed people towards more fuel-efficient cars. Simple awareness of the issues doesn't seem to be anywhere near enough. The engine tax might cause people to stop buying cars that are massively inefficient. This would be beneficial in the long run. I would prefer that the money from this tax go directly towards basic research in alternative energy and efforts to clean up toxic spills and the like.
Anyway, nobody likes to pay taxes. Yet everyone likes to drive on the roads and have easy access to electricity and water and protection from crime via the police, etc. That takes money. How else do we get it if not through taxes? How do you wean people off of fossil fuels when Big Oil has the government (whatever flavor it is at the moment) in it's pocket?
I do like the idea of a flat-rate tax, but if you eliminated all the other taxes I'd imagine that that 20% number would rise by quite a bit. Anyway, it will never happen because the people who would be hit the hardest are in power and always will be barring an actual revolution. They would just redefine things so that the majority of money they make cannot legally be called "income", even if it did pass.
Paul
Donovan Arnold wrote:
Dick,
It is the federal and state government that is taxing the hell out of me. Last time I checked they were both run by Republicans.
You are probably right though that Democrats would be taxing too.
I think the only difference between the two is what they spend the taxes on. Democrats spend them on big government programs and Republicans spend them on big missiles and tanks.
Either way, they are taking way too much.
I think a flat tax of 20% on every dollar made after 24K a year is a fair rate that doesn't inflict poverty on too many people. But no other taxes. That would give the government about 10% of total income of the country. That is plenty.
Best,
_DJA
Dick Sherwin <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net> wrote:
DJA writes: "Tell these damn Republicans, to stop taxing the living !@#$% out of me. I should not have to pay 25-33% of my income to the government to give away to people that are probably living better than me. That is just insane!"
__________________________________________________
That would make sense except the Dems want to tax us even more. Like Paul, they would probably like to put a tax on our car engines.
It is time for this country to get away from the income tax and go to a flat tax on consumption. No loopholes, no refunds, no payments on April 15. You pay as you consume. How simple is that?
Dick S.
----- Original Message -----
From: Donovan Arnold
To: Paul Rumelhart ; Vision2020
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 9:58 PM
Subject: [Vision2020] Taxes and Deadbeats
Paul brings up taxes;
I am sick of taxes. Damn, it seems like the more I make the more just goes to the government. Just three months ago I was paying 10% of my income in taxes, now that I got a raise, I got to pay 20%. Who am I working for? Why does the government punish you for working hard and getting a raise? They tax me on food, income, rent, property, interest on savings (double tax), gas, beer, wine, tires, licensing my car, school books, cleaning supplies, OTC drugs, and about everything else the government can think of.
Why? Why doesn't the government stop taxing everything to the point we are in poverty again? Why can't we put a limit on the government's growth and expansion? Let some of us spend our money that WE EARNED on our NEEDS instead of spending it on worthless pointless wars, lazy people that won't get a job, and people that won't take responsibility for their own actions and life. It just makes me so mad that I work so hard for the government and lazy people.
NO MORE TAXES! PLEASE. I cannot stand it anymore. I cannot afford it.
Here is my idea.
Eliminate welfare for the non-disabled. Give them loans instead. A single mom that is young, give her loans, when her child turns 17, she can start working and pay them off. Why should I have to pay for her children, they are hers and the father. Make her and the father pay it all back, with interest, and use that money to raise the next batch of teenage pregnancies.
Prisoners, send them all to the cheapest prison run states, like Alabama, Arizona, New Mexico, and Georgia. Then make the prisons pay off the cost of imprisoning them with labor instead of prison and working when they get out. Why should they get free food, housing, and medical because they committed a crime? Give them loans, then when they get out, charge for the loans, plus interest to pay for the next batch of criminals.
Medical, create free trade with Canada, Mexico, and Europe for medical supplies. This will drive the cost of medical care way down. Couldn't you see it now? $1 for months prescription. That would be fantastic.
Tell these damn Republicans, to stop taxing the living !@#$% out of me. I should not have to pay 25-33% of my income to the government to give away to people that are probably living better than me. That is just insane!
Best,
_DJA
Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
Fellow vision2020-ites,
While wandering aimlessly through the internet one day (meaning that I
don't remember where I came across it), I found out that Japan has an
engine tax. The smaller and more fuel-efficient the engine, the smaller
the tax. The tax apparently ranges from about $40 to $800 or so
annually, iirc. People who own more than one car would presumably be
taxed on both. In these days of higher gas prices, global warming, and
pollution concerns, it seems to me like it could be a good idea for our
country to adopt. We could start with lower numbers and add it in to
the registration cost. That's presuming, I guess, that the registration
cost doesn't already include it. Does anyone know what that amount is
comprised of?
Any thoughts on this? Is it a good idea?
Paul
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
=======================================================
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20060928/651eb086/attachment-0001.htm
More information about the Vision2020
mailing list