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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Paul writes: "<FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3>To me, it comes down to the question of whether or not we should be using
taxes to change behaviors."</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>---------------------------------------------------------</DIV>
<DIV>Paul,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As you know, the power to tax is the power to
destroy. "Using taxes to change behaviors" is just another way of
saying "Using taxes to control people." I do not believe that was
the original intent of taxes. At any rate, the so-called sin taxes have
not resulted in getting people to stop smoking or drinking so I doubt it would
work anyway.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I believe it would be a very dangerous concept to
use taxes to control behavior, thus control people. For example, the
government could put a high tax on gun ownership to control who could, and could
not, purchase a gun. Taxes may well be the dues citizens pay to live in a
civilized society but they should never be used as a weapon of control. To
me that would be the very definition of a WMD.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dick S.</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=godshatter@yahoo.com href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul
Rumelhart</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, September 28, 2006 12:05
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] [Bulk] Re:
Taxes and Deadbeats</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>To me, it comes down to the question of whether or not we
should be using taxes to change behaviors. The high price of gas is the
only impetus I've ever seen that has actually pushed people towards more
fuel-efficient cars. Simple awareness of the issues doesn't seem to be
anywhere near enough. The engine tax might cause people to stop buying
cars that are massively inefficient. This would be beneficial in the
long run. I would prefer that the money from this tax go directly
towards basic research in alternative energy and efforts to clean up toxic
spills and the like.<BR><BR>Anyway, nobody likes to pay taxes. Yet
everyone likes to drive on the roads and have easy access to electricity and
water and protection from crime via the police, etc. That takes
money. How else do we get it if not through taxes? How do you wean
people off of fossil fuels when Big Oil has the government (whatever flavor it
is at the moment) in it's pocket?<BR><BR>I do like the idea of a flat-rate
tax, but if you eliminated all the other taxes I'd imagine that that 20%
number would rise by quite a bit. Anyway, it will never happen because
the people who would be hit the hardest are in power and always will be
barring an actual revolution. They would just redefine things so that
the majority of money they make cannot legally be called "income", even if it
did pass.<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR>Donovan Arnold wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid20060928062812.57304.qmail@web38114.mail.mud.yahoo.com
type="cite">Dick,<BR><BR>It is the federal and state government that is
taxing the hell out of me. Last time I checked they were both run by
Republicans. <BR><BR>You are probably right though that Democrats would be
taxing too. <BR><BR>I think the only difference between the two is what they
spend the taxes on. Democrats spend them on big government programs and
Republicans spend them on big missiles and tanks. <BR><BR>Either way, they
are taking way too much. <BR><BR>I think a flat tax of 20% on every dollar
made after 24K a year is a fair rate that doesn't inflict poverty on too
many people. But no other taxes. That would give the government about 10% of
total income of the country. That is plenty.
<BR><BR>Best,<BR><BR>_DJA<BR><BR><BR><BR><B><I>Dick Sherwin <A
class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:rvrcowboy@clearwire.net"><rvrcowboy@clearwire.net></A></I></B>
wrote:
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>DJA writes: "<FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3>Tell these damn Republicans, to stop taxing the living !@#$% out of
me. I should not have to pay 25-33% of my income to the government to give
away to people that are probably living better than me. That is just
insane!<FONT face=Arial size=2>"</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>__________________________________________________</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>That would make sense except the Dems want to
tax us even more. Like Paul, they would probably like to put a tax
on our car engines.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is time for this country to get away from
the income tax and go to a flat tax on consumption. No loopholes, no
refunds, no payments on April 15. You pay as you consume. How
simple is that?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dick S.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><BR></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=godshatter@yahoo.com href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul
Rumelhart</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Wednesday, September 27, 2006 9:58 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
[Vision2020] Taxes and Deadbeats</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><BR>Paul brings up taxes;<BR><BR>I am sick of taxes.
Damn, it seems like the more I make the more just goes to the
government. Just three months ago I was paying 10% of my income in
taxes, now that I got a raise, I got to pay 20%. Who am I working for?
Why does the government punish you for working hard and getting a raise?
They tax me on food, income, rent, property, interest on savings (double
tax), gas, beer, wine, tires, licensing my car, school books, cleaning
supplies, OTC drugs, and about everything else the government can think
of. <BR><BR>Why? Why doesn't the government stop taxing everything to
the point we are in poverty again? Why can't we put a limit on the
government's growth and expansion? Let some of us spend our money that
WE EARNED on our NEEDS instead of spending it on worthless pointless
wars, lazy people that won't get a job, and people that won't take
responsibility for their own actions and life. It just makes me so mad
that I work so hard for the government and lazy people.<BR><BR>NO MORE
TAXES! PLEASE. I cannot stand it anymore. I cannot afford it.
<BR><BR>Here is my idea.<BR><BR>Eliminate welfare for the non-disabled.
Give them loans instead. A single mom that is young, give her loans,
when her child turns 17, she can start working and pay them off. Why
should I have to pay for her children, they are hers and the father.
Make her and the father pay it all back, with interest, and use that
money to raise the next batch of teenage pregnancies. <BR><BR>Prisoners,
send them all to the cheapest prison run states, like Alabama, Arizona,
New Mexico, and Georgia. Then make the prisons pay off the cost of
imprisoning them with labor instead of prison and working when they get
out. Why should they get free food, housing, and medical because they
committed a crime? Give them loans, then when they get out, charge for
the loans, plus interest to pay for the next batch of criminals.
<BR><BR>Medical, create free trade with Canada, Mexico, and Europe for
medical supplies. This will drive the cost of medical care way down.
Couldn't you see it now? $1 for months prescription. That would be
fantastic.<BR><BR>Tell these damn Republicans, to stop taxing the living
!@#$% out of me. I should not have to pay 25-33% of my income to the
government to give away to people that are probably living better than
me. That is just
insane!<BR><BR>Best,<BR><BR>_DJA<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><B><I>Paul
Rumelhart <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"><godshatter@yahoo.com></A></I></B>
wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">Fellow
vision2020-ites,<BR><BR>While wandering aimlessly through the internet
one day (meaning that I <BR>don't remember where I came across it), I
found out that Japan has an <BR>engine tax. The smaller and more
fuel-efficient the engine, the smaller <BR>the tax. The tax apparently
ranges from about $40 to $800 or so <BR>annually, iirc. People who own
more than one car would presumably be <BR>taxed on both. In these days
of higher gas prices, global warming, and <BR>pollution concerns, it
seems to me like it could be a good idea for our <BR>country to adopt.
We could start with lower numbers and add it in to <BR>the
registration cost. That's presuming, I guess, that the registration
<BR>cost doesn't already include it. Does anyone know what that amount
is <BR>comprised of?<BR><BR>Any thoughts on this? Is it a good
idea?<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR>=======================================================<BR>List
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