[Vision2020] Donovan: Liar, Idiot, or both?

Dick Sherwin rvrcowboy at clearwire.net
Sun Sep 17 10:59:46 PDT 2006

And now Sunil resorts to calling names and accusing people of character
assassination just because they are of the opinion that he is supportative
of those who wish to do harm to our country.  Sounds a little paranoid to
Perhaps some of us have scratched a little too close to the core of his real
personality for comfort.

Sunil expects everyone to agree with him on the definition of torture and
what constitutes terrorist acts.  I do not agree with him that our country
has tortured anyone accused of terrorism.

Sunil believes the terrorists are above the rules of the Geneva Conventions
but, for some strange reason, we should afford those protections to them.
These terrorists are not directly affiliated with any nation with which we
have Geneva Convention obligations too.  They operate independently of any
nation, giving them freedom to ignore treaties and rules of engagement.  To
insist we have to treat them under the Geneva Convention rules is ludicrous!

Sunil is perfectly free to express his support for these terrorists but he
does not have the power to dictate what I, or others, believe about these
people.  Perhaps he should spend more time criticising those who cut off
heads of people with whom they disagree, or burn churches and murder
innocents in retalition for cartoons they dislike or statements by the Pope
they don't agree with.  I, for one, am sick of hearing all the wailing and
bitching from the Muslim world everytime they feel shunned in some way.
They need to grow up and join the 21st century.  Perhaps they were never
taught the "Sticks and stones" story.

Bottom line is, in my post I stated clearly that it was my opinion that
Sunil was supportive of those who wished to bring grave harm to our nation.
I have a right to that opinion, just as he has to his opinions.  To accuse
me of character assassination because of my opinion only reveals Sunil's
true feelings further.  He feels that anyone who is of a different opinion
from him shouldn't express their own thoughts.  Sounds a lot like the
murders he appears to support.

Kiss off Sunil.  I am sick and tired of your crying and bitching.  Your "You
are picking on me." attitude and your name calling.  You try to present
yourself as a reasonable person but only bury yourself deeper with each
post.  We are all just as entitled to our opinions as you are so just get
over it.

Dick S.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 10:14 AM
Subject: [Vision2020] Donovan: Liar, Idiot, or both?

> Donovan,
> First, you are a liar.  You lie that you only attack those who attack you.
> You launched this recent character assassination, now joined by Dick
> Sherwin, after I asked you a simple question.
> You lie about my opinions and statements.  Here, picked at random from the
> list of links you provided, is one of my posts:
> 'Dick,
> Is torture illegal?  Is the President allowed to permit torture?  Are he
> those who torture in our name immune from prosecution?
> Sunil'
> Please explain, if you can, how this is support of terrorists or enemies
> the United States.  Of course you may be busy lobbying the Senate to
> the Administration's bill to set up kangaroo courts and permit evidence
> obtaied by torture right now.  Quick, attack Colin Powell too for opposing
> torture and the violation of the Geneva Conventions.  Even he can't stay
> board with this stuff any longer.
> Dick, your statements simply show you cannot understand the idea that we
> have the right and duty to stand up for what we believe, and that people
> love this country and its principles do not necessarily agree with you.
> road to a totalitarian state will be paved by people who don't understand
> the need for honest dialog and criticism of government.
> Donovan, I can see how your maturity and breadth of life experience
> qualifies you to give career advice.  I shall give it all the attention it
> deserves.  For my part, I wouldn't put you in charge of cleaning catboxes
> diapers, work for which you seemed qualified earlier.  You would eat the
> shit and then spew it on this listserve as you have been doing.
> When you are no longer a fool, it will show in your posts.  When you can
> attack my ideas by analysing what I've actually said, I'll be surprised.
> It's easier for you to lie and proclaim your idiocy than it is to actually
> do any work.
> Prove your points or shut up, windbag.
> Sunil
> >From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
> >To: Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>, vision2020 at moscow.com
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sunil and His Defense of Terrorists and
> >ConvictedChild Molesters
> >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 23:30:34 -0700 (PDT)
> >
> >Sunil,
> >
> >  I don't disagree with defending the rights of the  accused. I disagree
> >with giving any rights at all to convicted and self  admitted child
> >molesters over the rights of others. If someone is  accused of child
> >molestation, they should get the best defense  possible. But after that,
> >shy of a mistrial or rigged trail, lawyers  shouldn't be arguing, in
> >or on-line that they should be free to  go to another city, unsupervised,
> >that is FUBAR. To me, that is  supporting Child Molesters over the rights
> >of children and other  potential victims. I don't care your logic, that
> >self admitted and  convicted child molesters should have those rights.
> >
> >   Second, I would never support putting you in charge of the nation's
> >security.  I listed plenty of emails that indicate your position  on
> >terrorists. It is my opinion, Sunil, that the tone and language of  your
> >emails combined, over time,  indicate you sympathize with the  plight of
> >the majority of these individuals that wish real harm to  Americans and
> >Westerns. Others are entitled to look at those 20+ emails  over the last
> >years and think otherwise. It is my opinion that any  foreigner that
> >they wish real harm to the United States, its  elected leaders, its
> >or its property, and has the ability to  act on that statement, the
> >military has the duty to detain that  foreigner until her/she is no
> >poses a threat. It is called  National Security. National Security and
> >prevention of an immediate  harm and death of the innocent take
> >over that of individual  freedom of movement of US enemies.
> >
> >  Nobody is putting a gun  to your head to represent convicted and
> >self-admitted child molesters.  That is your choice, and yours only.
> >is forcing you to  sympathize with the rights of people who say "Death to
> >America". You  could choose to represent the elderly, disabled, or
> >of other  poor children that are wronged everyday in this country with no
> >shortage of work and just as little pay.
> >
> >   You spend  way to much time on Vision2020 defending these people.
> >
> >   But again, I am not going to argue with you. As you could argue the
> >number of the dimples on a golf ball only number two, that is what you
> >I am not good at legal argumentation, I cannot even spell half the  time.
> >But I can tell you my opinion is that convicted child molesters  should
> >go anywhere unsupervised and that terrorists wish harm and  can will
> >harm to the US should be set free because of some legal  argument, tell
> >that to victims of 911. Your statements, so frequently  and intensely, as
> >you do on a public forum, in my opinion, is defending  them, not their
> >actions, but them.
> >
> >   Best,
> >
> >   _DJA
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