[Vision2020] Costco Preferred Over Wal-Mart

g. crabtree jampot at adelphia.net
Fri Sep 1 16:47:29 PDT 2006 

Thank you. It looks as though we're going to be treated to a beautiful Labor 
Day break. I hope you'll be enjoying it as much as I know I will.

Gary
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Campbell" <joekc at adelphia.net>
To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
Cc: "'Moscow Vision 2020'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Costco Preferred Over Wal-Mart


>I know you are, Gary, but what am I?
>
> OK, that's it for me on this issue! Have a wonderful holiday weekend, 
> everyone! You too, Gary!
>
> Best, Joe
>
> ---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:
>
> =============
> Oops, I see that you're in the midst of a particularly virulent outbreak. 
> To
> down play it as "no big deal" is outstandingly brave! Be strong, lil 
> cowboy,
> be strong! Ask momma to rub on some salve and soon you'll able to go out 
> and
> play just like the normal kids.
>
> Courage,
> gc
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Joe Campbell" <joekc at adelphia.net>
> To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
> Cc: "'Moscow Vision 2020'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 8:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Costco Preferred Over Wal-Mart
>
>
>> Gary asks: "Is there a name for the ocular condition that causes you to
>> see insults everywhere you look?"
>>
>> Yes. The name is "insulting," as in you are insulting, which would 
>> explain
>> why always see insults in your posts!
>>
>> It's not a big deal. It is just my way of pointing out that your
>> criticisms are not very substantive. It also might explain why, even
>> though I provide counterexamples to your arguments, you keep repeating
>> them as if you're saying something new.
>>
>> Does it make sense now?
>>
>> Best, Joe
>>
>> ---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:
>>
>> =============
>> Wow, I'm ever so sorry, Joe. I didn't realized the enormous handicaps 
>> that
>> you were struggling with. Is there a name for the ocular condition that
>> causes you to see insults everywhere you look? And what about that nasty
>> dermal syndrome where the skin thins and chaffs in response to the first
>> malady?  I really admire the way you soldier on in the presence of these
>> burdens. I'm going to notify Jerry Lewis as to your condition and perhaps
>> he'll devote a few minutes of his next telethon to you. Good luck and 
>> stay
>> strong!
>>
>> gc
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Joe Campbell" <joekc at adelphia.net>
>> To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>> Cc: "'Moscow Vision 2020'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 7:48 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Costco Preferred Over Wal-Mart
>>
>>
>>>I see the insults but I can't any argument, Gary!
>>>
>>> Not sure what to say since it is clear that you didn't carefully read my
>>> post. You made a general claim about Wal-Mart and I refuted it with a
>>> hypothetical example. As it turns out, the example is not entirely
>>> hypothetical since the comparison between Cosco and Wal-Mart is real.
>>> Your
>>> comments below seem to miss these points entirely.
>>>
>>> Sorry for engaging in abstract, logical reasoning! Next time I'll use
>>> pictures.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joe Campbell
>>>
>>> ---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> =============
>>> My goodness, why argue using half measures? I'm surprised that you 
>>> didn't
>>> take your supposition to its inevitable ridiculous conclusion. Costco
>>> comes
>>> to town and pays its lowliest hot dog vendor $16.00 per hour to start.
>>> All
>>> is sunshine and lollypops. Wal-Mart arrives and, in the throws of
>>> corporate
>>> greed, not only doesn't pay its employees a living wage, it charges them
>>> for
>>> the privilege of working  for a company as vicious and mean as them.
>>> Using
>>> this business model WM drives Costco and all Mom & Pop stores into
>>> receivership and eventually brings about the end of the world. This 
>>> would
>>> have been the ultimate in proof that WM is a cross between a Cambodian
>>> re-education camp and hell.
>>>
>>> I find this technique for arguing against Wal-Mart to be puzzling. Pit
>>> them
>>> against a hypothetical paragon of virtue that isn't even a player in the
>>> local game, accuse them of indignities and atrocities that they do not
>>> engage in, blend well and present the results as though you had just 
>>> read
>>> them out of a year end stock holders report. It succeeds in presenting 
>>> WM
>>> as
>>> evil, I guess,  but it has no basis in reality. The one thing that you
>>> continually leave out of the worker/wage equation is the fact that the
>>> employees always have at least two choices when it comes to working for
>>> the
>>> dreaded corporate monster. There is no such thing as "no other work
>>> option."
>>> Unless, that is, we want to dive back into your "for the sake of 
>>> argument
>>> fantasy world."
>>>
>>> gc
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Joe Campbell" <joekc at adelphia.net>
>>> To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>>> Cc: "'Moscow Vision 2020'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>; "Tom Hansen"
>>> <thansen at moscow.com>; "Joan Opyr" <joanopyr at moscow.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 7:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Costco Preferred Over Wal-Mart
>>>
>>>
>>>> Gary,
>>>>
>>>> Notice that your story turns out exactly the same regardless of how 
>>>> much
>>>> money Wal-Mart pays its employees. Eventually it does translate into a
>>>> bad
>>>> thing. Let me try to illustrate the point.
>>>>
>>>> Suppose Costco pays its employees a minimum of $10 an hour and Wal-Mart
>>>> pays its employees a minimum of $9, in an effort to keep competitive.
>>>> Sounds like a win-win situation here. Suppose instead Wal-Mart pays its
>>>> employees $8. This doesn't sound so bad either and it represents your
>>>> second option: Wal-Mart employs "the lesser skilled members of the
>>>> workforce that Costco rejected." Still a win-win situation.
>>>>
>>>> But once we notice that Wal-Mart is selecting folks who have no other
>>>> work
>>>> option we realize that they have no motivation at all to stop at $8. 
>>>> Why
>>>> not go to $6, or $4, or $2, or $1? In an entirely "free market," there
>>>> is
>>>> no incentive for Wal-Mart to stop at any particular point. For any
>>>> dollar
>>>> amount that it might stop, your point still holds: they are employing
>>>> "lesser skilled members of the workforce" who can't get a job anywhere
>>>> else. Hey, $1 is better than nothing, right?
>>>>
>>>> Thankfully the market is not entirely free and there are minimum wage
>>>> laws. In Idaho the minimum wage is $5.15 an hour, so Wal-Mart is
>>>> prevented
>>>> by law from going any lower than that. At this point the numbers start
>>>> to
>>>> matter, so here is an interesting quote from the web (I can't recall 
>>>> the
>>>> website but you can google to quote to find out if you'd like):
>>>>
>>>> "Costco wouldn't have to raise salaries with Kerry's proposal to
>>>> increase
>>>> the minimum wage to $7 an hour, from $5.15 now. It already pays hot-dog
>>>> vendors as much as $16 an hour, and the lowest wage it pays is $10 an
>>>> hour."
>>>>
>>>> The difference between $10 and $5.15 per hour is significant. If these
>>>> workers are doing more or less the same work, then it seems as if
>>>> Wal-Mart
>>>> is not paying its fair share. Until the minimum wage is raised to
>>>> correct
>>>> the problem I think it is wise to discourage companies that are
>>>> motivated
>>>> purely by profit considerations from locating in our fine state.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Joe Campbell
>>>>
>>>> ---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> =============
>>>> Why don't we all impose an enormous strain on our imaginations and
>>>> presume
>>>> that everything Mr. Reed presented in his letter is correct. I'll give
>>>> you
>>>> all a moment to bring that imposing struggle under control. Now the
>>>> question
>>>> that needs to be asked is so what? The fact of the matter is that
>>>> Wal-Mart
>>>> has expressed a desire to build in the area and Costco hasn't. Now lets
>>>> say
>>>> that Costco was interested in expanding into the Moscow/Pullman area 
>>>> and
>>>> that they did indeed provide a workplace that was twice as wonderful as
>>>> Wal-Mart. Since the management of WM can't round up employees at gun
>>>> point
>>>> it would seem that they would have to be competitive to attract warm
>>>> bodies
>>>> or, they would employ the lesser skilled members of the workforce that
>>>> Costco rejected. Either way there would be greater employment
>>>> opportunities
>>>> in the area, not to mention increased economic vitality. How, exactly
>>>> does
>>>> that translate into a bad thing?
>>>>
>>>> Perplexed,
>>>> gc
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen at moscow.com>
>>>> To: "Joan Opyr" <joanopyr at moscow.com>; "'Moscow Vision 2020'"
>>>> <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:23 PM
>>>> Subject: [Vision2020] Costco Preferred Over Wal-Mart
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> >From today's (August 29, 2006) Moscow-Pullman Daily News with a
>>>>> >special
>>>>> thanks to T.V. Reed of Pullman.
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Costco preferred over Wal-Mart
>>>>>
>>>>> Two of the handful of fanatical Wal-Mart advocates in town have
>>>>> recently
>>>>> written that Costco would never come to Pullman because our per capita
>>>>> income is lower than places like Clarkston where the store has 
>>>>> located.
>>>>> But
>>>>> anyone with basic economic understanding knows the per capita income
>>>>> for
>>>>> Pullman (and Moscow) is skewed downward by the presence of so many
>>>>> students
>>>>> whose actual spending power, thanks to parents, is far beyond what
>>>>> income
>>>>> would indicate.
>>>>>
>>>>> The median income for folks 25 and over in Pullman is $50,416. That
>>>>> figure
>>>>> represents more than 9,000 people - more than the entire population of
>>>>> Clarkston with its per capita income of $29,100. There is no reason 
>>>>> why
>>>>> Costco and many other stores won't find this area attractive. Attempts
>>>>> to
>>>>> convince us that only Wal-Mart would be interested in Pullman are
>>>>> misleading
>>>>> and denigrate our considerable attractiveness as a community.
>>>>>
>>>>> What Costco has proven definitively is that Wal-Mart's elitist model 
>>>>> of
>>>>> low
>>>>> wages, meager, expensive benefits, and vicious anti-union activity is
>>>>> not
>>>>> necessary to big-box success. One local Wal-Mart booster traveled to
>>>>> Arkansas to get the "facts" about the corporation, and was apparently
>>>>> wowed
>>>>> to talk to big boss Lee Scott himself who told him what a wonderful
>>>>> company
>>>>> he runs.
>>>>>
>>>>> As any competent journalist or researcher for government, business or
>>>>> academia knows, you never take at face value the self-reporting of the
>>>>> research subject. Digging for the facts beneath Wal-Mart's claims and
>>>>> comparing them to rival Costco reveals a clear, objective contrast.
>>>>> Costco
>>>>> has twice as many employees enjoying health benefits, and the company
>>>>> pays
>>>>> for 90 percent of those benefits as opposed to 60 percent for 
>>>>> Wal-Mart.
>>>>> Starting salaries at Costco average $3-$6 per hour higher than at
>>>>> Wal-Mart.
>>>>> Not surprisingly, Wal-Mart has twice the employee turnover rate of
>>>>> Costco.
>>>>>
>>>>> These differences belie Wal-Mart's claims, and prove their elitist
>>>>> model,
>>>>> where wealth supposedly trickles down from the Waltons (five of
>>>>> America's
>>>>> 10
>>>>> richest individuals), can be replaced by one where workers are paid
>>>>> fairly
>>>>> and let their money trickle up into the economy.
>>>>>
>>>>> T.V. Reed, Pullman
>>>>>
>>>>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Seeya round town, Moscow.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom Hansen
>>>>> Moscow, Idaho
>>>>>
>>>>> "If I wanted to overhear every tedious scrap of brain static rattling
>>>>> around
>>>>> in your head, I'd read your blog."
>>>>>
>>>>> - Bill Maher
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>>               http://www.fsr.net
>>>>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>>> =======================================================
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> =======================================================
>>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>>>               http://www.fsr.net
>>>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>> =======================================================
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

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