[Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: [Bulk] Re: Same Sex Marriage Debate pointless.

Paul Rumelhart godshatter at yahoo.com
Sat Oct 21 12:06:07 PDT 2006


It's not the wording of it, it's separating the two aspects of it: 
religious and secular.  Is it the fact that they might get a tax break 
that upsets people?  I'm assuming it's the religious aspect most who are 
against it don't like about it.  So break the two apart.  That way the 
churches can keep their status quo if they want to and the actual gay 
couples out there can be allowed into the hospital room if their partner 
is dying or can claim the tax exemption that hetero couples claim when 
they are for all intents and purposes in the same situation.

I think the idea of working up a contract that specifies certain things 
about how the union can be dissolved including custody of future 
children will go a long way towards minimizing the ugly divorce cases 
that happen quite frequently.  It may not make divorce any rarer, but it 
might make it more amicable and less costly.

I can fully understand certain churches not wanting a civil union 
between people of the same gender to be called a "marriage".  The term 
would be more cleanly used to indicate a religious marriage as opposed 
to a secular one.  The "sanctity of marriage" would still be undiluted.  
What I don't understand is why they would care one iota if a gay couple 
made a contract that allowed them certain benefits that married couples 
get as a by-product of their religous marriage.  In theory, it should 
mean nothing to them because the civil union is not a religious issue.  
However, in theory, theory and practice are the same.  In practice they 
are different.

It comes down to: what is an actual marriage?  To the church, it's a vow 
made before God.  To the state, it's a series of tax breaks and legal 
issues.  I'm just suggesting that we let the churches rule over the 
religious aspect, and let the state rule over it's own aspects of it.  
To the state, which is involved with the legal aspect of things, it 
makes sense in my opinion to let gay couples have all the earthly 
benefits that a hetero couple gets.  Otherwise, it looks a lot like 
discrimination.

Paul

Tony wrote:

> Paul, if the designation itself is improper, (gay "marriage") then any 
> benefits, civil or otherwise, are also improper.
>  
> The way to get through this is to maintain the institution per the 
> status quo.
>  
> Have a pleasant weekend,
> -T
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Paul Rumelhart <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com>
>     *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>     *Sent:* Friday, October 20, 2006 8:33 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: Same Sex Marriage Debate
>     pointless.
>
>     So call them "Civil Unions", make them cover the secular aspects
>     of "marriage" (such as death benefits, tax  breaks, etc), and make
>     them relatively wide open for people to get.  Make it a policy
>     that a "marriage" performed in the normal way automatically
>     carries with it a "civil union".  Don't force any religion to have
>     to marry two people of the same gender if it's against their
>     doctrine to do so.  Limit civil unions to one per person and make
>     them easy to stop when both parties agree on it.  The civil union
>     would be a contract that would carry with it specific terms agreed
>     upon by both parties on what it covers and how it may be
>     dissolved.  In a way, it's just a more forceful prenuptual agreement.
>
>     Let two people of the same gender get a civil union if they want
>     to.  That way those who don't think it's a valid marriage
>     shouldn't mind - they aren't married before any god in a spiritual
>     sense, yet they get the same secular benefits that everyone else
>     does.  Churches that don't have hangups about it can perform gay
>     marriages, those that do can still feel huffily superior.
>
>     The only way to get through this in my view is to separate the
>     civil from the spiritual.
>
>     Paul
>
>     Tony wrote:
>
>>     Bill, why would anyone bother attending a debate on such a
>>     completely unnatural and patently inappropriate concept as "gay
>>     marriage"?  There is, and never will be, any such thing. 
>>     Marriage was and always will be between a male and female for the
>>     purposes of providing a stable environment for the raising of
>>     offspring.  Must we continue to patronize these maladjusted
>>     freaks who would pervert society to reflect their own warped
>>     perspectives?
>>      
>>     -Tony
>>
>>         ----- Original Message -----
>>         *From:* Bill London <mailto:london at moscow.com>
>>         *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>         *Sent:* Friday, October 20, 2006 2:55 PM
>>         *Subject:* [Vision2020] Same Sex Marriage DebateTONIGHT!
>>
>>         *ASUI to host Same Sex Marriage Debate on Oct. 20th*
>>
>>             /Moscow//, ID// - /ASUI Vandal Entertainment will be
>>             hosting "Same Sex Marriage: A Civil Debate" on October
>>             20^th , 2006 at 8pm in the SUB Ballroom.  This event will
>>             feature two speakers: Glenn Stanton and John Corvino who
>>             are two opposing voices on this issue.  They plan on
>>             bring clarity and civility to this otherwise divisive topic.
>>
>>              For more information about these speakers visit their
>>             website:
>>             http://www.kirklandproductions.com/ARTISTS/Same_Sex_Marriage_Debate-bio.html
>>
>>             ASUI Vandal Entertainment has chosen to host this event
>>             in order to increase awareness about this
>>             sometimes-controversial subject.  We do not take a
>>             position, but instead encourage students to learn and
>>             enrich their experience at the University of Idaho by
>>             taking advantage of attending such events.  There will be
>>             800 tickets available to the public.  Ticket prices will
>>             be $1 for UI Undergraduate Students and $2 for all
>>             others.  They are available for purchase at the UI SUB
>>             Info desk and there is a limit of four tickets per person.
>>
>>             Based on available space, we will be providing the
>>             opportunity for student organizations to host an
>>             informational table outside of the SUB on the evening of
>>             the event.  If there are more than ten groups interested
>>             in hosting a table, we will choose ten groups randomly
>>             from a lottery.  If you are interested in having an
>>             informational table at this event, please email me at
>>             katien at sub.uidaho.edu <mailto:katien at sub.uidaho.edu> with
>>             (1) name, (2) title of organization, and (3) contact
>>             information if chosen to host a table.  There will be no
>>             costs associated with hosting a table at this event.
>>
>>             ASUI Vandal Entertainment is part of the Associated
>>             Students of the University of Idaho. They have sponsored
>>             recent lecture/performing arts events such as
>>             Mythbusters, Jon Reep, Rob Corddry and NBC's Last Comic
>>             Standing Josh Blue.  ASUI Vandal Entertainment also
>>             sponsors large concerts, films, small concerts and more.
>>             For more information about upcoming ASUI Vandal
>>             Entertainment events, visit
>>             www.asui.uidaho.edu/vandalentertainment
>>             <http://www.asui.uidaho.edu/vandalentertainment>.
>>
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