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It's not the wording of it, it's separating the two aspects of it:
religious and secular. Is it the fact that they might get a tax break
that upsets people? I'm assuming it's the religious aspect most who
are against it don't like about it. So break the two apart. That way
the churches can keep their status quo if they want to and the actual
gay couples out there can be allowed into the hospital room if their
partner is dying or can claim the tax exemption that hetero couples
claim when they are for all intents and purposes in the same situation.<br>
<br>
I think the idea of working up a contract that specifies certain things
about how the union can be dissolved including custody of future
children will go a long way towards minimizing the ugly divorce cases
that happen quite frequently. It may not make divorce any rarer, but
it might make it more amicable and less costly.<br>
<br>
I can fully understand certain churches not wanting a civil union
between people of the same gender to be called a "marriage". The term
would be more cleanly used to indicate a religious marriage as opposed
to a secular one. The "sanctity of marriage" would still be
undiluted. What I don't understand is why they would care one iota if
a gay couple made a contract that allowed them certain benefits that
married couples get as a by-product of their religous marriage. In
theory, it should mean nothing to them because the civil union is not a
religious issue. However, in theory, theory and practice are the
same. In practice they are different.<br>
<br>
It comes down to: what is an actual marriage? To the church, it's a
vow made before God. To the state, it's a series of tax breaks and
legal issues. I'm just suggesting that we let the churches rule over
the religious aspect, and let the state rule over it's own aspects of
it. To the state, which is involved with the legal aspect of things,
it makes sense in my opinion to let gay couples have all the earthly
benefits that a hetero couple gets. Otherwise, it looks a lot like
discrimination.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Tony wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid004601c6f53a$45b18d10$2b88e942@simpson" type="cite">
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<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Paul, if the designation itself is
improper, (gay "marriage") then any benefits, civil or otherwise, are
also improper.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">The way to get through this is to
maintain the institution per the status quo.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Have a pleasant weekend,</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">-T</font></div>
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<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div
style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="godshatter@yahoo.com" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul
Rumelhart</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Friday, October 20, 2006 8:33 PM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: Same Sex Marriage Debate pointless.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
So call them "Civil Unions", make them cover the secular aspects of
"marriage" (such as death benefits, tax breaks, etc), and make them
relatively wide open for people to get. Make it a policy that a
"marriage" performed in the normal way automatically carries with it a
"civil union". Don't force any religion to have to marry two people of
the same gender if it's against their doctrine to do so. Limit civil
unions to one per person and make them easy to stop when both parties
agree on it. The civil union would be a contract that would carry with
it specific terms agreed upon by both parties on what it covers and how
it may be dissolved. In a way, it's just a more forceful prenuptual
agreement.<br>
<br>
Let two people of the same gender get a civil union if they want to.
That way those who don't think it's a valid marriage shouldn't mind -
they aren't married before any god in a spiritual sense, yet they get
the same secular benefits that everyone else does. Churches that don't
have hangups about it can perform gay marriages, those that do can
still feel huffily superior.<br>
<br>
The only way to get through this in my view is to separate the civil
from the spiritual.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Tony wrote:
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type="cite">
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<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Bill, why would anyone bother
attending a debate on such a completely unnatural and patently
inappropriate concept as "gay marriage"? There is, and never will be,
any such thing. Marriage was and always will be between a male and
female for the purposes of providing a stable environment for the
raising of offspring. Must we continue to patronize these maladjusted
freaks who would pervert society to reflect their own warped
perspectives?</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">-Tony</font></div>
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<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div
style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="london@moscow.com" href="mailto:london@moscow.com">Bill
London</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="vision2020@moscow.com"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Friday, October 20, 2006 2:55 PM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
[Vision2020] Same Sex Marriage DebateTONIGHT!</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 12pt;">ASUI to host Same Sex
Marriage Debate on Oct. 20th<O:P></O:P></span></font></b></div>
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dir="ltr">
<div class="Section1">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom: 16pt; text-indent: 0.5in;"><ST1:PLACE w:st="on"><ST1:CITY
w:st="on"><i><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-style: italic;">Moscow</span></font></i></ST1:CITY><i><span
style="font-style: italic;">, <ST1:STATE w:st="on">ID</ST1:STATE></span></i></ST1:PLACE><i><span
style="font-style: italic;"> – </span></i>ASUI Vandal Entertainment
will be hosting “Same Sex Marriage: A Civil Debate” on October 20<sup>th</sup>,
2006 at 8pm in the SUB Ballroom. This event will feature two speakers:
Glenn Stanton and John Corvino who are two opposing voices on this
issue. They plan on bring clarity and civility to this otherwise
divisive topic.<O:P></O:P></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom: 16pt; text-indent: 0.5in;"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> For
more information about these speakers visit their website: </span></font><font
face="Helvetica"><span style="font-family: Helvetica;"><a
href="http://www.kirklandproductions.com/ARTISTS/Same_Sex_Marriage_Debate-bio.html"><font
color="#0023e9" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="color: rgb(0, 35, 233); font-family: 'Times New Roman';">http://www.kirklandproductions.com/ARTISTS/Same_Sex_Marriage_Debate-bio.html</span></font></a></span></font><O:P></O:P></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom: 16pt; text-indent: 0.5in;"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">ASUI
Vandal Entertainment has chosen to host this event in order to increase
awareness about this sometimes-controversial subject. We do not take a
position, but instead encourage students to learn and enrich their
experience at the <ST1:PLACE w:st="on"><ST1:PLACETYPE w:st="on">University</ST1:PLACETYPE>
of <ST1:PLACENAME w:st="on">Idaho</ST1:PLACENAME></ST1:PLACE> by
taking advantage of attending such events. There will be 800 tickets
available to the public. Ticket prices will be $1 for UI Undergraduate
Students and $2 for all others. They are available for purchase at the
UI SUB Info desk and there is a limit of four tickets per person.<O:P></O:P></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom: 16pt; text-indent: 0.5in;"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Based
on available space, we will be providing the opportunity for student
organizations to host an informational table outside of the SUB on the
evening of the event. If there are more than ten groups interested in
hosting a table, we will choose ten groups randomly from a lottery. If
you are interested in having an informational table at this event,
please email me at </span></font><font face="Helvetica"><span
style="font-family: Helvetica;"><a href="mailto:katien@sub.uidaho.edu"><font
color="#0023e9" face="Times New Roman"><span
style="color: rgb(0, 35, 233); font-family: 'Times New Roman';">katien@sub.uidaho.edu</span></font></a></span></font>
with (1) name, (2) title of organization, and (3) contact information
if chosen to host a table. There will be no costs associated with
hosting a table at this event.<O:P></O:P></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent: 0.5in;"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">ASUI
Vandal Entertainment is part of the Associated Students of the <ST1:PLACE
w:st="on"><ST1:PLACETYPE w:st="on">University</ST1:PLACETYPE> of <ST1:PLACENAME
w:st="on">Idaho</ST1:PLACENAME></ST1:PLACE>. They have sponsored
recent lecture/performing arts events such as Mythbusters, Jon Reep,
Rob Corddry and NBC’s Last Comic Standing Josh Blue. ASUI Vandal
Entertainment also sponsors large concerts, films, small concerts and
more. For more information about upcoming ASUI Vandal Entertainment
events, visit <a href="http://www.asui.uidaho.edu/vandalentertainment">www.asui.uidaho.edu/vandalentertainment</a>.
<O:P></O:P></span></font></p>
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style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"><O:P></O:P></span></font></p>
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style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"><O:P></O:P></span></font></p>
<div>
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style="font-size: 12pt;"><O:P></O:P></span></font></p>
</div>
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