[Vision2020] [Vision2020 liberals, courts, and Tony (was Pledge)

Mon Nov 27 17:50:02 PST 2006

Ok, so why can't you be man enough to just refer to these people as they are 
and leave out the racial-insightful and inflammatory trash?  Is it possible 
you simply can not rise to the arena of discussion without bringing it down 
to a base level?

J  :]

>From: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
>To: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [Vision2020 liberals, courts, and Tony (was 
>Pledge)
>Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:32:38 -0800
>
>Saundra, you failed to accurately assess my intent in using the term 
>RAGHEAD
>last time I explained it to you and you continue to show a lack of
>appreciation for diversity by refusing to consider the different 
>perspective
>of some Americans post 911.  As I told you, I was referring to those 7th
>century, bomb throwing radicals like Osama Bin Raghead.  I have nothing
>against the average law abiding and peaceful Muslim.
>
>I did forget our discussion of the other week when posting last night and
>apologize for any resulting confusion, but trust you are able to understand
>the rage of those Americans who are thus affected by the events of 911.
>
>If it helps to put my feelings in their proper perspective, I might point
>out that I regard those of my own race who thieve from others and loaf
>instead of working as white trash.  My meaning in using such terms is to
>condemn them for their BEHAVIOR, not the COLOR of their SKIN.  You are of
>course free to disagree with my judgment in this matter, but my motives
>should by now be plain.
>
>Do have a pleasant Christmas. -T
>
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 8:17 PM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [Vision2020 liberals, courts, and Tony (was
>Pledge)
>
>
> > Visionaries:
> >
> > Tony wrote:
> > "what precisely have I said that you regard as "racist"?  Such labels 
>are
> > serious, Saundra, and you would be wise to provide evidence.  I think 
>that
> > is a fair request."
> >
> > <sigh>  Tony knows the answer to this because we discussed it offlist.
> > Indeed, it was his refusal to apologize that was the straw that broke 
>this
> > camel's back, and he knows this, too because I wrote to him:
> > "Sorry, Tony -- this is my line in the sand.  Your unashamed use of 
>ethnic
> > slurs deeply disappoints me -- and it drowns out any points you're 
>trying
> > to
> > make.  If you see nothing wrong with it, so be it.  However, absent an
> > apology to V2020 for the many you've offended by crossing that line, my
> > conscience dictates that this is the end of my interaction with you.  
>It's
> > no great loss to either of us, but it saddens me nonetheless."
> >
> > My conscience still dictates that I not interact with him.  At all.  
>And,
> > that includes responding to the rest of his response to me.  Of course, 
>he
> > knows this, too, because my offlist communications to him were
> > unambiguous.
> >
> > However, for any Visionaries who missed it, here is the relevant part of
> > Tony's recent post to which I was referring:
> > "I just feel that when dealing with a clearly sociopathic and widespread
> > enemy, we are unfortunately going to find ourselves in a position of
> > utilizing unconventional methods in order to prevail.  Distasteful, yes,
> > but
> > is failure an option when dealing with these murderous [ethnic/racial 
>slur
> > deleted]?"
> > http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2006-November/037746.html
> >
> > For those who are unfamiliar with the term Tony unashamedly and
> > unapologetically used:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raghead
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs
> >
> > I suggest we all hope/pray for a short winter so Tony will be too busy
> > with
> > his paying gig to continue to endlessly spew his vitriol here on V2020!
> >
> >
> > Saundra Lund
> > Moscow, ID
> >
> > The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to 
>do
> > nothing.
> > - Edmund Burke
> >
> > ***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra 
>Lund.
> > Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 
>forum
> > without the express written permission of the author.*****
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tony [mailto:tonytime at clearwire.net]
> > Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 5:20 PM
> > To: Saundra Lund
> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] [Vision2020 liberals, courts, and Tony (was
> > Pledge)
> >
> > Saundra, you seem to have misunderstood me.  I am not opposed to a
> > vigorous
> > defense of ANYONE.  What I said quite clearly was the UNREASONABLE and
> > ENDLESS STALLING that is waged on behalf of bums like Gene Stuart and 
>the
> > Lankfords.  Please try to read more discerningly, won't you?  My 
>position
> > actually supports YOU as a victim of crime!!  Are you so unable to see
> > past
> > your liberal blinders that you mistook an ally for an enemy and
> > inadvertently aligned yourself with your attacker?  Or perhaps you 
>suffer
> > from Stockholm Syndrome, wherein victims come to identify with their
> > attackers?
> >
> > I must say that the viciousness of your closing made for entertaining
> > reading, but for the record, what precisely have I said that you regard 
>as
> > "racist"?  Such labels are serious, Saundra, and you would be wise to
> > provide evidence.  I think that is a fair request.  For example, let us
> > say
> > hypothetically that someone said publicly that a female poster to this
> > forum
> > was a prostitute?  Would that person, making such a serious charge, not
> > have
> > an obligation to substantiate their claim?
> >
> > Confident in your sense of justice, I await your prompt response. --T
> >
> >
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> >          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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> >
> >
>
>
>=======================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
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