[Vision2020] [Vision2020 liberals, courts, and Tony (was Pledge)
Tony
tonytime at clearwire.net
Sun Nov 26 09:14:27 PST 2006
Good morning Keely, and isn't it a FINE mornin"?
I'm a little confused -- what exactly did I say in my post to Paul that you
found "ugly"?
The legitimate concerns you voiced regarding bigotry and socio-economic
status are concerns I of course share, but such cases are, I believe, not
the primary motivation for the bulk of the endless legal maneuvers I
credited defense attorneys with. It boils down to cash -- job security. I
do not, ANY MORE THAN YOU, oppose a retrial where it can clearly be
demonstrated that an abuse of the type you mention has occurred. But Keely,
you know darn good and well that there are a raging torrent of fallacious
appeals and other measures choking the system and delaying closer for tens
of thousands of suffering victims nationwide. Where is your compassion for
THEIR plight??
I have to say, Keely that it is your view that American society is the
"debauched and bloodthirsty" entity as opposed to the predatory criminal
element, which is the true obscenity here. Again I plead with you: WHERE IS
YOUR COMPASSION FOR THE VICTIMS OF CRIMINALS??? You seem only to fear the
state, big brother, da' system.... This isn't 1968, wake up and smell the
latte'.
As for your smug and self satisfied crack about Lady Justice, TELL IT TO THE
CENTRAL PARK JOGGER!!!!!! But do speak up Keely, her cognition is
permanently impaired.
Now go do the RIGHT thing. -T
----- Original Message -----
From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
To: <tonytime at clearwire.net>; <godshatter at yahoo.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 10:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020 liberals, courts, and Tony (was Pledge)
> Tony, your perpetually gutter-dredging mind really doesn't need to be
> further revealed to us. Betsy is right -- your reply to Sunil was filthy,
> and now your response to Paul is as ugly as we expect from you.
>
> In a system where the race of the victim, the poverty of the defendant,
> and the socioeconomic disparity between the two of them is a virtual
> guarantee of harsher sentences; where Black women and men languish in
> prison for the same crimes that affluent whites routinely receive
> probation or rehab for; where drug crimes are often punished more harshly
> than crimes against children and women; where rape in prison is considered
> by many to be inevitable if not just; and where DNA testing has, in fact,
> exonerated scores of men whose poverty convicted them more than, say,
> their semen or blood, there is need to constantly review and revise the
> role of the State to ensure that the rights of all are protected with
> equal fervor. It's not a perfect system, obviously, and yet because it's
> the best we've got, it deserves the vigilance and commitment of people
> like Sunil. He is not part of the problem -- he and others are part of
> the wall of protection that each one of us has against an overzealous
> State and a debauched, bloodthirsty citizenry.
>
> And, speaking of a debauched and bloodthirsty citizenry, your comment
> about why Lady Justice is blind tells me that, quite unwittingly, your
> disdain for civil rights legitimizes Sunil's work far more than anything I
> could say.
>
> keely
>
> keely
>
>
> From: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
> To: "Paul Rumelhart" <godshatter at yahoo.com>
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Pledge to real Americans (Mikey Moore)
> Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:07:59 -0800
>
> Actually Paul, we DO live in a world where the guilt of those convicted is
> generally obvious. A very SMALL percentage have been exonerated through
> DNA testing. Any system of justice administered by fallible humans will
> have a percentage of failures. This is unavoidable and does not
> invalidate said system.
>
> The best we can do is have an effective system for dealing with predatory
> citizens which does not allow them to languish in prison years beyond the
> point at which their punishment was to have been meted out.
>
> Actually, the lady with the scale is blind because she was savagely mugged
> by a violent sociopath who the liberal community had freed through a
> technicality. Happens all the time.
>
> If public defenders get paid whether they do the right thing or advocate
> on behalf of societies least social members well beyond the point of
> fairness or reason, then they need to be regulated, because it is NOT
> their job to second guess a jury endlessly.
>
> Think we'll have a white Christmas? -T
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Paul Rumelhart
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 4:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Pledge to real Americans (Mikey Moore)
>
>
> Tony,
>
> I wish we lived in a world where the guilty were "obviously guilty" and
> where no one was ever framed by a bunch of "good old boys".
> Unfortunately, we don't live there. How many people have been found to be
> innocent via dna testing of the charges that ultimately ended up with them
> being executed?
>
> The best we can do is have each side work as hard as they can, despite
> what they may or may not believe about their clients innocence, in
> presenting their case and have the court system decide.
>
> The statues of the blind lady with the scales in courthouses? There is
> a reason she is blind. She doesn't get swayed by the media, the color of
> the defendants skin, or how obvious the situation looks on the surface.
>
> Besides, public defenders get paid whether they submit appeals or play
> minesweeper. Why not let them do their jobs without berating them about
> it?
>
> Paul
>
> Tony wrote:
> Sunil, I see that the first two thirds of your last message to me
> consisted
> of a fit of masturbatory name calling. I do trust you feel better, and
> hope
> that you did not get any on you.
>
> To address the questions you were able to ask after having composed
> yourself: 1) The convicted have the right to be treated humanely as they
> are locked up for the duration of their sentence. They do not have the
> right to repeatedly fleece the community they have preyed on through the
> actions of some unprincipled defense attorney who is less concerned for
> justice than he is for his own job security.
>
> 2) There is no guarantee in our system to a ridiculously unrealistic
> standard of proof in which a reasonable doubt is confused with ALL doubt.
>
> 3) And finally, YES! I do wish you would stop thieving from the taxpayer
> by pursuing unrealistic and abusive legal measures on the undeserving
> behalf
> of your criminal clients.
>
> I do hope this helps clear up your confusion on the matter.
>
> Best wishes for a pleasant and joyous holiday season. -T
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 9:17 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Pledge to real Americans (Mikey Moore)
>
>
> Actually, Tony, it was yesterday that I was tired of your ignorance. I
> read
> your generalizations and mistatements, based on the most recent handful
> you've grabbed from your nethers, and I ask myself, 'How can I help this
> man? Is he as ignorant as he seems? Or can he learn? Perhaps if he
> takes
> his opposable thumbs out of their warm sanctuary and uses them to turn
> pages, he can sound like he knows something.'
>
> I'm trying to help you with that process.
>
> What rights do the convicted have, Tony? I'm not talking about the more
> limited set you wish them to have, I'm talking about the limited ones they
> already have. What processes are guaranteed them under our system?
> Should
> their lawyers actually follow the law as it exists? Or would you prefer
> that we were thieves, taking our money and not doing our jobs?
>
> Sunil
>
>
> From: "Tony" <tonytime at clearwire.net>
> To: "Sunil Ramalingam" <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> CC: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] A Pledge to real Americans (Mikey Moore)
> Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 08:27:37 -0800
>
> Sunil, you seem particularly upset this morning and it's beautiful
> outside--cheer up!
>
> You insist that my position that many lawyers are making a handsome living
> by bringing endless appeals is "bullshit". However, the truth remains
> that
> whether they are working from a flat rate or hourly, they ARE well paid,
> and it is WRONG to abuse the process by filing one measure after another
> for years in an effort to free obviously guilty predators like the
> Lankfords or Gene Stuart.
>
> Can't a fellow of your obvious talent and intelligence make a living
> advocating on behalf of society's innocent victims rather than their
> tormentors? God knows they could use your protection and your conscience
> could use some relief as well.
>
> Have a safe and warm weekend. -T
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