[Vision2020] fascinated and bewildered..................

Wed Nov 15 11:14:11 PST 2006

Tony,
Your projection technique is irrational and pathological. Usually dialogue 
turns into a wild goose chase. There is a strong element of Gaslighting. 
Fortunately, no one individual can be singled out on this list, without the 
rest watching. If you find someone that you find affiliation with and then 
try to cling to them as a prop and they step out of the way, do not continue 
to be surprised.  This has probably always happened and always will. Unless 
you alone, change your practice.
Kind hearted people, will always distance themselves from the sort of 
expulsive forces that you can’t entirely hold back.
Its a trust thing, earn it or loose it.

Dave

>Gotta' admit partner, I'm confused.  I support those who follow their
>countries orders and do what they think is right-the bulk of vets.  Now, on
>this list, someone suggests that WW11 vets were bloodthirsty savages 
>itching
>to blow up civilians in order to strut their stuff, and Matt, you then
>disdain ME and make nice with THEM.  Help me out here man.  Is form so much
>more important than SUBSTANCE??  I would be genuinely curious what I have
>said that you find irrational.
>
>I do hope you have a fine week.
>
>My best,  -T
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
>To: <sslund at adelphia.net>; <ophite at gmail.com>
>Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:03 PM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Tony Simpsom Shills for Terrorists Yet Again!
>
>
> > Saundra,
> >
> > If I have made myself sound like the likes of Tony and others, then I 
>have
> > failed. I am trying to serve my kind. The rational moderate 
>conservative.
> > No
> > I don't know all the answers, but who of us does?
> >
> > As in the war, I think we did what served us best. We saved lives due to 
>a
> > oncoming invasion. If we didn't then what was an alternative? A boycott 
>or
> > barricade of the island. Something in this nature has proved time and 
>time
> > again to prove that lives are lost. Lost due to starvation and other
> > means.
> > Look at Korea as of late. They lost 3 million in 2 years, due to us and
> > other nation boycotting them.
> >
> > Yet some, insue this anti A bomb campaign, saying it was terror bound.
> > They
> > say that we are terrorists in killing 250,000 Japanese. But yet 
>realizing
> > that in order to end this war, it actually saved lives. Saving lives in
> > war
> > is the key. Civilian, war combatant, or whatever, it doesn't matter, 
>it's
> > saving lives.
> >
> > We can all play armchair quarterback and assume what would have 
>happened.
> > As
> > in Andreas and myselfs opinion, well I'll stick with ONE-TWO million
> > AMERICAN lives saves.
> >
> > Do I realize that some of the generals disagreed to the a bomb? Yep. Do 
>I
> > know that some of them understood that the only way to victory was total
> > victory? Yep. Do I know about operation olympia?
> > How this was understood to take place in 1945. Why? Because our leaders 
>at
> > that time thought saving American lives was more important than what we
> > argue about. Cuase they had the balls to do so.
> >
> > I hope that others can realize this fact, that the bomb saves lives
> > regardless. I suspect otherwise. The fact remains we are a country of
> > values
> > and thoughts, which can always be reversed, for better or god help us
> > WORSE.
> >
> > Until then,
> > Matt Decker
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
> >>To: "'Matt Decker'" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>, <ophite at gmail.com>
> >>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Tony Simpsom Shills for Terrorists Yet Again!
> >>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:38:10 -0800
> >>
> >>Hi Again Matt & Andreas,
> >>
> >>I appreciate the discussion . . . and I think you two have done a good 
>job
> >>of illustrating why the US decision to drop nuclear bombs on Japan is
> >>still
> >>hotly -- and validly -- debated.  I certainly wasn't alive back then, 
>and
> >>I'm no historian, but I have read quite a bit about it because I think 
>our
> >>use of atomic bombs against noncombatants was flatly immoral and
> >>unethical,
> >>just as I think the attacks on the World Trade Center were.
> >>
> >>Not surprisingly, I think Andreas' assessment of a broken Japan at the
> >>time
> >>of the bombings is more accurate.
> >>
> >>I would like to think, Matt, that those responsible for making the
> >>decisions
> >>had only sound reasons for their decision in spite of the fact that I
> >>disagree with the decision.  However, for me, several significant facts
> >>weigh against that conclusion.  I'll mention only two of them.
> >>
> >>First of all, my reading of history convinces me we had this new toy we
> >>were
> >>just *itching* to use.  The competition, the expectations, the message 
>to
> >>be
> >>sent to the rest of the world . . . all of that simply cannot be 
>forgotten
> >>or overlooked, IMHO, in the analysis of the US decision to use nuclear
> >>weapons against noncombatants.
> >>
> >>Second, I think it incredibly . . . naïve to not look at the *all* the
> >>socio-political factors in play at the time.  Anti-Japanese sentiment 
>was
> >>rampant in the US -- don't forget we had already allowed the rights and
> >>lives of tens of thousands of (Japanese) citizens to trampled due to
> >>simple
> >>racism of the kind we unfortunately witnessed from Tony Simpson over the
> >>weekend.
> >>
> >>After all, it's a lot easier to rationalize the unleashing of nuclear 
>h*ll
> >>on innocent men, women, and children when you believe they're just a
> >>little
> >>less than human, and the timing of having an easily visually 
>identifiable
> >>enemy at the time that we had a new "toy" the boys wanted to play with 
>was
> >>incredibly convenient.
> >>
> >>
> >>JMHO,
> >>Saundra Lund
> >>Moscow, ID
> >>
> >>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to 
>do
> >>nothing.
> >>- Edmund Burke
> >>
> >>***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra 
>Lund.
> >>Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 
>forum
> >>without the express written permission of the author.*****
> >>
> >>
> >>
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