[Vision2020] fascinated and bewildered..................

Wed Nov 15 20:50:04 PST 2006

David, you must have me mixed up with somebody else.  I haven't used eight 
millimeter in YEARS.  Aren't you hip to digital video?  And I don't hunt 
geese, although I do find an occasional grouse excellent over a campfire. 
And when lighting with gas, I always use those little mantles, not an 
element.

And what do you mean when you say I should change my practice?  I'm not a 
doctor or lawyer-I'm a tree trimmer.  But it was pleasant visiting with you 
anyway.

Stay cool.     -Tony
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "david sarff" <davesway at hotmail.com>
To: <tonytime at clearwire.net>; <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] fascinated and bewildered..................

>
> Tony,
> Your projection technique is irrational and pathological. Usually dialogue 
> turns into a wild goose chase. There is a strong element of Gaslighting. 
> Fortunately, no one individual can be singled out on this list, without 
> the rest watching. If you find someone that you find affiliation with and 
> then try to cling to them as a prop and they step out of the way, do not 
> continue to be surprised.  This has probably always happened and always 
> will. Unless you alone, change your practice.
> Kind hearted people, will always distance themselves from the sort of 
> expulsive forces that you can't entirely hold back.
> Its a trust thing, earn it or loose it.
>
> Dave
>
>
>>Gotta' admit partner, I'm confused.  I support those who follow their
>>countries orders and do what they think is right-the bulk of vets.  Now, 
>>on
>>this list, someone suggests that WW11 vets were bloodthirsty savages 
>>itching
>>to blow up civilians in order to strut their stuff, and Matt, you then
>>disdain ME and make nice with THEM.  Help me out here man.  Is form so 
>>much
>>more important than SUBSTANCE??  I would be genuinely curious what I have
>>said that you find irrational.
>>
>>I do hope you have a fine week.
>>
>>My best,  -T
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Matt Decker" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>
>>To: <sslund at adelphia.net>; <ophite at gmail.com>
>>Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 9:03 PM
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Tony Simpsom Shills for Terrorists Yet Again!
>>
>>
>> > Saundra,
>> >
>> > If I have made myself sound like the likes of Tony and others, then I
>>have
>> > failed. I am trying to serve my kind. The rational moderate
>>conservative.
>> > No
>> > I don't know all the answers, but who of us does?
>> >
>> > As in the war, I think we did what served us best. We saved lives due 
>> > to
>>a
>> > oncoming invasion. If we didn't then what was an alternative? A boycott
>>or
>> > barricade of the island. Something in this nature has proved time and
>>time
>> > again to prove that lives are lost. Lost due to starvation and other
>> > means.
>> > Look at Korea as of late. They lost 3 million in 2 years, due to us and
>> > other nation boycotting them.
>> >
>> > Yet some, insue this anti A bomb campaign, saying it was terror bound.
>> > They
>> > say that we are terrorists in killing 250,000 Japanese. But yet
>>realizing
>> > that in order to end this war, it actually saved lives. Saving lives in
>> > war
>> > is the key. Civilian, war combatant, or whatever, it doesn't matter,
>>it's
>> > saving lives.
>> >
>> > We can all play armchair quarterback and assume what would have
>>happened.
>> > As
>> > in Andreas and myselfs opinion, well I'll stick with ONE-TWO million
>> > AMERICAN lives saves.
>> >
>> > Do I realize that some of the generals disagreed to the a bomb? Yep. Do
>>I
>> > know that some of them understood that the only way to victory was 
>> > total
>> > victory? Yep. Do I know about operation olympia?
>> > How this was understood to take place in 1945. Why? Because our leaders
>>at
>> > that time thought saving American lives was more important than what we
>> > argue about. Cuase they had the balls to do so.
>> >
>> > I hope that others can realize this fact, that the bomb saves lives
>> > regardless. I suspect otherwise. The fact remains we are a country of
>> > values
>> > and thoughts, which can always be reversed, for better or god help us
>> > WORSE.
>> >
>> > Until then,
>> > Matt Decker
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
>> >>To: "'Matt Decker'" <mattd2107 at hotmail.com>, <ophite at gmail.com>
>> >>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Tony Simpsom Shills for Terrorists Yet Again!
>> >>Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:38:10 -0800
>> >>
>> >>Hi Again Matt & Andreas,
>> >>
>> >>I appreciate the discussion . . . and I think you two have done a good
>>job
>> >>of illustrating why the US decision to drop nuclear bombs on Japan is
>> >>still
>> >>hotly -- and validly -- debated.  I certainly wasn't alive back then,
>>and
>> >>I'm no historian, but I have read quite a bit about it because I think
>>our
>> >>use of atomic bombs against noncombatants was flatly immoral and
>> >>unethical,
>> >>just as I think the attacks on the World Trade Center were.
>> >>
>> >>Not surprisingly, I think Andreas' assessment of a broken Japan at the
>> >>time
>> >>of the bombings is more accurate.
>> >>
>> >>I would like to think, Matt, that those responsible for making the
>> >>decisions
>> >>had only sound reasons for their decision in spite of the fact that I
>> >>disagree with the decision.  However, for me, several significant facts
>> >>weigh against that conclusion.  I'll mention only two of them.
>> >>
>> >>First of all, my reading of history convinces me we had this new toy we
>> >>were
>> >>just *itching* to use.  The competition, the expectations, the message
>>to
>> >>be
>> >>sent to the rest of the world . . . all of that simply cannot be
>>forgotten
>> >>or overlooked, IMHO, in the analysis of the US decision to use nuclear
>> >>weapons against noncombatants.
>> >>
>> >>Second, I think it incredibly . . . naïve to not look at the *all* the
>> >>socio-political factors in play at the time.  Anti-Japanese sentiment
>>was
>> >>rampant in the US -- don't forget we had already allowed the rights and
>> >>lives of tens of thousands of (Japanese) citizens to trampled due to
>> >>simple
>> >>racism of the kind we unfortunately witnessed from Tony Simpson over 
>> >>the
>> >>weekend.
>> >>
>> >>After all, it's a lot easier to rationalize the unleashing of nuclear
>>h*ll
>> >>on innocent men, women, and children when you believe they're just a
>> >>little
>> >>less than human, and the timing of having an easily visually
>>identifiable
>> >>enemy at the time that we had a new "toy" the boys wanted to play with
>>was
>> >>incredibly convenient.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>JMHO,
>> >>Saundra Lund
>> >>Moscow, ID
>> >>
>> >>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to
>>do
>> >>nothing.
>> >>- Edmund Burke
>> >>
>> >>***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra
>>Lund.
>> >>Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020
>>forum
>> >>without the express written permission of the author.*****
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>=======================================================
>> >>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> >>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >>                http://www.fsr.net
>> >>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >>=======================================================
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > Get FREE company branded e-mail accounts and business Web site from
>> > Microsoft Office Live
>> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> > =======================================================
>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >               http://www.fsr.net
>> >          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > =======================================================
>>
>>
>>=======================================================
>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>                http://www.fsr.net
>>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>=======================================================
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get FREE company branded e-mail accounts and business Web site from 
> Microsoft Office Live 
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/mcrssaub0050001411mrt/direct/01/
>
> 