[Vision2020] crossing the line
keely emerinemix
kjajmix1 at msn.com
Wed May 17 13:51:54 PDT 2006
The producer of the vitriol and vomit below deserves nothing but
condemnation for his latest screed against Tom. I don't intend to get into
it with the author, but I would like to make a plea for some semblance of
civility again on Vision 2020.
Civility doesn't have to be that idiotic nonsense that begins everything
with "Thanks for sharing. It sounds like you have a problem with what I
said about . . . " It doesn't have to be fawning, shallow, bland and simple
enough to not cause offense. Quite the contrary. Who would read that? If
you want shallow, bland and simple, go peruse the fiction section of a
"Christian" bookstore. Vision 2020 exists to further discussion. I
appreciate sharp, pointed, even angry rebuttals of bad arguments; I don't
flinch at tough words and witty rejoinders, even -- especially -- when
directed at me. I know what to ignore, and I know what to respond to. I'm
no tougher than anyone else on the list, but that's my point: We're all
adults and should be able to handle a few, or many, strongly written parries
and thrusts. Even warnings about groin kicks and soprano singing, which
most adults would take as the hyperbolic expression of protectiveness and
warning intended.
But the garbage below goes too far.
My pity for the writer is surpassed only by my disgust at his
characterization of soldiers dead and alive. I grew up in a family that
protested the war at every possible turn; I was carrying picket signs and
singing in candlelight vigils at Davis-Monthan Air Force Base starting when
I was 7 or so. I hate war and I am unalterably opposed to our continued
presence in Iraq. I am discouraging my 17-year-old from joining the
military or even talking to recruiters. But I will stand toe-to-toe against
anyone who calls a Vietnam-era or any other veteran a baby killer -- someone
who participated in "the carpet bombing of little kids with napalm" -- and
I'll be damned if I'll let a comment like that go unchallenged, even from
someone I consider worthy of more compassion than scorn. This isn't debate,
or witty repartee, or a verbal joust. There's no rational thought or
rhetorical prowess here; there isn't even a coherent statement, much less a
reasoned argument. It's just a diarrheac spewing of irrational ballast, and
I'm afraid it makes it much easier for other discourse on Vision to slide
down the same filthy slope.
(And yes, I'm aware that the author loathes me, but I don't hate him, and if
he had a need I could fulfill, I'd try to help. With a stern, motherly
rebuke afterwards . . . )
Royally PO'd,
keely
From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
To: Tom Hansen <idahotom at hotmail.com>, vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] government checks? please!
Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 13:22:55 -0700 (PDT)
Tom,
Once again, I appreciate your taking a bullet in the head for this
country.
However, my attacks against you, were AFTER you attacked my Father and
his service in the Military. He is your superior officer, an 0-5, and who
did much for this country and his work has saved the lives many 10000s of
soldiers and the innocent, most notably, with providing the electronic
components for the Tomahawk Cruise missile.
You attack my father, mother, sister, brother, cousin, or any relative
and I only called you a couch potato??? Hey, you are lucky. I must have
been having a good day, eh?
The immaturity here Hansen, is you going after my Father, a military
veteran, because you don't like me.
That was way over the line and I responded, when I should just wrote you
off, with an equally offensive comment to you. Which apparently it was
because you have not shut up about it for 2 1/2 years.
DO NOT MAKE FUN OF MY FATHER. And I will not call your war buddies dead
beats that deserved to get shot in some pointless war. I believe anyone
that hangs out with a grunt in the military that called you a friend could
not possible be a hero if all they make fun of the people that design the
planes and weapons that cover your ass from enemy fire.
I am so sick, of you playing the "I was in the military" card. I don't
give a rat's ass. I only care if you actually did something when you were
there. Anyone can put on a uniform. How many pedophiles, rapists,
murderers, traitors, former Nazis, and other useless pieces of garbage have
been in the military? Wearing a military uniform does not make you a hero,
Bush wore a military uniform, it is what you do while wearing the uniform
that makes you a hero.
All you have done with your military service Mr. Hansen is use it to try
and say that you are always right about everything, and to put down many of
your superior officers and fellow solders.
So stop telling me you were in the military, I don't give a shit. You
were in the military, so what. You joined an organization which you knew at
the time was carpet bombing little kids with napalm in Asia, whoopee!
Regards,
_DJA
Tom Hansen <idahotom at hotmail.com> wrote: Thank you for your support, keely.
This is nothing new from Arnold. This is the same idiot that made a similar
(almost identical) joke concerning two close friends of mine killed in
Vietnam.
At that time the discussion on V2020 concerned General Wesley Clark and his
(Gen Clark's) candidacy for president. I had mentioned that I was assigned
to Fort Irwin under then Colonel Wesley Clark (Chief, Operations Group, Fort
Irwin, Calif) (remembering it now, Arnold??). The discussion expanded to
include places I had served and friends I had known. Throughout this
discussion Arnold was providing his "colorful" commentary about how I was a
couch potato and how friends of mine couldn't be any better. I mentioned
John Wiggins and Dale Roderick and mentioned that they were both killed in
Vietnam. Arnold responded with words to the affect that they were probably
the two biggest couch potatoes in the Army.
So, you see, keely. Arnold hasn't chaned one iota in the past couple years.
A skunk may change its stripes, but the smell long endures.
Seeya round town, Moscow.
t hansen
Moscow, Idaho
>From: "keely emerinemix"
>To: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com, thansen at moscow.com
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: [Vision2020] government checks? please!
>Date: Wed, 17 May 2006 04:57:21 -0700
>
>I've learned that answering him is like feeding stray cats, but I take
>exception to Donovans saying that Tom Hansen has never had a job that
>didn't result in a government paycheck.
>
>Tom is a veteran. He served his country and served it well, as evidenced
>by his long tenure and his honorable discharge. He gave what he had and
>earned every paycheck he got, and it offends me greatly to suggest that he
>and other veterans simply relied on "government checks." The government,
>and all of us, relied on them. Simple as that.
>
>I'm glad you're getting your education, Donovan, and doing it the hard
way,
>but judging from your take on voting and service to the country, you seem
>not to have learned very much at all.
>
>keely
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