[Vision2020] Beastiality and Incest

Fri May 5 20:38:30 PDT 2006

Cowboy Dick,

You are ignoring the issue:

What is the evidence for your knowledge claim that the Bible is the "living Word" of some alleged god?

Instead of giving evidence, you have only reasserted the knowledge claim (by faith [read hope]), not given evidence.  Anyone can have faith in anything; that is not evidence!  That someone believes "X is true" is not evidence that "X is true" unless that claim is supported by other evidence.

Why should other people be guide by moral strictures based upon an unevidenced claim evinced by you or anyone else?

Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
deco at moscow.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: rvrcowboy 
To: Art Deco 
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Beastiality and Incest

Wayne,

I have faith that the Bible is the living Word of God.  I know you most likely have little faith in anything other than your own opinions. 

I don't really care what you believe, as far as the Bible and God go.  I also don't care what you think about my beliefs.  I also am not going to spend time trying to convince someone with a closed mind toward my beliefs that I am right.

You can claim that "God" is only "alleged" if you want and I respect your right to believe it.  To me God is a real part of my life.  I am not ashamed to admit it and also not ashamed to tell you that I believe I am a better person for that belief.

I base my premise for discussion on my beliefs, just as everyone does.  You base yours on whatever you wish.  It is of little consequence to me, nor should it be.

Dick
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Art Deco 
  To: Vision 2020 
  Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 1:25 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Beastiality and Incest

  Cowboy Dick,

  I don't remember getting a response from you to the following from an earlier post.  Did I miss your response?  I look forward to it.

  However, I repeat the question and hope for a real response, not a near emotional meltdown:

  How do you know that the Bible is the word of some alleged God?

  You claim in your posts that the Bible is the word of some alleged god.  In doing so you are making a knowledge claim -- claiming that certain statements are true of reality.  

  A knowledge claim needs to be supported by evidence, especially if that claim is to used to restrict the freedom and joy of others. 

  If I said that pollution from the Potlatch Industries operation in Lewiston elevates the risk of cancer for Lewiston residents, you would expect and would be justified in your expectation that I produce clear, cogent, and verifiable evidence that such a knowledge claim is true.  That is exactly what is being asked of your knowledge claim that the Bible is the word of some alleged God.

  After claiming that the Bible is "the word of God," you then use only your interpretation of words from the Bible to attempt to justify your imposition of behavioral standards on others.

  You see the problem:  If you cannot justify your underlying knowledge claim, then you cannot justify the moral pronouncements and their restrictions on individuals' personal freedom that are based on that unsupported knowledge claim.

  More than two-thirds of the population of the world do not agree the Bible is the word of some god.  Again:  What clear, cogent, verifiable evidence do you offer for the truth of your knowledge claim that the Bible is the word of some alleged God?

  Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
  deco at moscow.com

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: rvrcowboy 
  To: Vision2020 
  Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 9:30 PM
  Subject: [Vision2020] Beastiality and Incest

  I sincerely hope people here do not take this post the wrong way but there is a question that has been troubling me for some time.  As far as I know, and believe me I am no expert here, many of the same cites in the Bible which speak directly about homosexuality also speak directly about beastiality and incest.  

  I have heard people justify their homosexual acts by stating that these passages of the Bible also ban other things, like eating pork, etc..  Since many here are openly homosexual, or gay if you prefer, I would like very much to know your views on beastiality and incest.  Do you believe these are also a matter of choice that the Bible does not take seriously?  

  Please believe me, I am not trying to stir the pot with this question in any way.  I am  truly curious about your views on these things.  I am aware that some of you are not practicing Christians so the Bible passages probably mean nothing to you.  Still, I would like to know your feelings.

  If you do not want to answer within the forum you may answer outside of it and please request that I do not ever refer to your response here and I won't, if that is your wish.  I am not asking this to put anyone down.  I am truly curious, that's all.

  Dick Sherwin

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