[Vision2020] Re: pastoral attacks
Donovan Arnold
donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Sat Mar 18 12:26:58 PST 2006
My church gives our priests a house, a salary, medical care, and a CAR. Imagine that, even with God's love, he still needs that stuff.
_DJA
J Ford <privatejf32 at hotmail.com> wrote: I didn't have the same reaction to the article that you apparently did.
Both Joan and Art Deco were saying the same thing...Christ was/is for the
support of the poor, the sick and the infirmed. Giving a $17K truck to an
unordained "pastor" of a church that does not even support the food banks or
the other pastoral assistance programs in Moscow and whose own elders state
they take care of only those few they choice are worthy of helping, and who
is someone that can afford to buy his own stupid truck, is sick and an abuse
of the position. The only reason he was given the truck was for a "show of
support" for Doug's sticking with the church. Yeah, some promotion of God's
word going on there. Ever read were Jesus took such gratuitous show of
support? No!
This article is a call for "pastors" to get off their high thrones and start
doing Jesus' work. This INCLUDES helping out with the Meals program and any
other program that WOULD meet with Jesus' approval. Building up of
institutions and filling the pockets of the "pastor" is NOT what Jesus
did/does/will want. In fact, He speaks against wealth on many, many
occasions...
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich
man to enter into the Kingdom of God." Matt 19:24
J :]
>From: "Ellen Roskovich"
>To: deco at moscow.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] meals on wheels
>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:59:49 -0800
>
>
>This is SO MISLEADING. This has NOTHING to do with MEALS ON WHEELS. This
>is a PRIVATE little inside joke with Joan.
>
>The only reason I opened this was because I thought it was some new info on
>the Meals on Wheels dilemma. . . . THAT I am interested in. But NO, it's
>just you being yourself.
>
>Where's my DELETE button. . . . .
>
>Ellen Roskovich
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>From: "Art Deco"
>To: "Vision 2020"
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] meals on wheels
>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:17:32 -0800
>
>
>
>
>
>Joan,
>
>You make several interesting points about the Wilson & Family's Cult & Cash
>Machine. However, the reference to the gift of a truck by cult members to
>the Cultmaster is a very telling one. It shows how unchristian the
>organization and its starry-eyed flock is and how far they have
>hypocritically wandered from the teachings of Christ in whom they allege to
>believe.
>
>What should be the object of a Christian's charity according to the Gospels
>of Christ? The poor and the sick!
>
>But don't just take the word of a nonbeliever for it. Below, with emphasis
>added, is a timely article by a religious professional from the USAToday of
>March 12, 2006 discussing this same subject, albeit in a wider context, and
>much more eloquently than I can.
>
>Read it and draw your own conclusions not only about the Wilson & Family's
>Cult & Cash Machine but about some other area religious organizations. The
>subject of this thread and the issue it deals with is a perfect opportunity
>for Christians and so-called Christian organizations to demonstrate their
>commitment to the major teachings of the Gospels.
>
>Cheers,
>
>
>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
>deco at moscow.com
>
>_______________________________________________
>Posted 3/12/2006 8:27 PM USAToday
>
>Not heard from the pulpit
>
>By Tom Ehrich
>
>Preachers and Sunday school teachers are pulling their punches these days
>regarding morality. Our nation needs ethical and religious instruction in
>the basics: honesty, fidelity, humility, sharing wealth, sharing power and
>sacrifice. Yet those are the last topics one is likely to hear in churches.
>
>Instead, for more than a decade, preachers have been grandstanding about
>such secondary issues as sexuality, Christmas greetings and
>institution-building.
>
>Consider the day in 2004 when former Enron Corp. chief Ken Lay appeared in
>federal court to answer an 11-count indictment for fraud, conspiracy and
>false statements. (Lay is on trial in Houston.) On the way to court, he
>stopped by Houston's prominent First United Methodist Church to pray. His
>pastor accompanied him when he turned himself in to authorities.
>
>Good gestures, to be sure, but how had Lay, a regular worshiper and lay
>leader, gotten so ethically challenged? Some ethical guidance clearly had
>gone unheard or unspoken. His church encourages "disciplines of faithful
>living," but current Sunday classes sound the bell for self-improvement,
>not sacrificial giving or courageous honesty in a world growing accustomed
>to deceit.
>
>When WorldCom chief Bernard Ebbers began to feel the heat of scandal, he
>stood before his friends at Easthaven Baptist Church, in Brookhaven, Miss.,
>and declared, "I just want you to know you aren't going to church with a
>crook." A federal jury disagreed and convicted him of fraud. How could a
>dedicated Sunday school teacher have gotten so off track? His church's
>mission statement is about the institution's growth potential, not about
>living decent lives.
>
>Attending church surely doesn't make one immune to ungodly deeds? we are
>all sinners, after all? but churchgoers should be able to get guidance on
>how to lead a responsible life, not reminders of church politics, from the
>pulpit.
>
>Jesus devoted roughly two-thirds of his teachings to our need to give away
>wealth and to value humility and servanthood more than power. Paul
>condemned "love of money." Hebrew prophets spoke forcefully against greed,
>bribery and injustice. The Law of Moses is concerned with basic ethics?
>respect for persons and property, truth-telling, generosity and mercy.
>
>Yet, in the typical congregation, it is safer to preach about someone
>else's sexual behavior than about wise and faithful use of money, or on
>economic dislocation, corporate ethics or widening gaps in the distribution
>of wealth. That's my conclusion based on a survey of several dozen websites
>and posted sermons, as well as my experience both as a preacher and
>listener.
>
>One winning formula goes after themes that are minor in Scripture but big
>in the culture wars.
>
>Consider Tom DeLay, often identified as a born-again Christian, whose
>indictment for money laundering forced him to resign as Republican leader
>in the House of Representatives. A recent sermon series at a church with
>which he used to be associated condemned homosexuality, abortion and
>gambling. But it ignored Scripture's more basic theme of honesty and mercy
>as hallmarks of truth, and leadership as requiring people "who fear God,
>are trustworthy, and hate dishonest gain."
>
>With rare exceptions, preachers of all stripes seem to avoid what Jesus
>said about wealth and power. Instead, they preach about church politics,
>upcoming festivals and personal improvement.
>
>Despite cascading corporate and political scandals, a widening gap between
>rich and poor and mounting arrogance in public life, I read hardly a word
>about honesty, integrity, mercy, forgiveness, generosity, kindness or
>humility.
>
>I know how dangerous it is to venture into the nuts and bolts of Christian
>ethics. People will endure sermons about esoterica such as stem cell
>research or same-sex marriage, but they'll squirm when talk turns to
>personal priorities, time spent away from family, wealth accumulation,
>casual adultery or truth-telling. It is safer to lambaste gays than to tout
>Jesus' model of embracing diversity. It is more profitable to back one
>political party than to call all leaders to account for their behavior. A
>dull preacher will be tolerated; an intrusive one will be fired.
>
>Our nation needs better from us. We don't need extremist politics
>masquerading as Christian morality. We need solid and consistent
>instruction in the basics of godly living. We can't hold churches
>accountable for what parishioners refuse to hear. But we can hold them
>accountable for what they shrink from saying.
>
>Tom Ehrich is an Episcopal pastor, author, teacher and writer in Durham,
>N.C.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Joan Opyr
>To: Tom Ivie
>Cc: Vision2020 Moscow
>Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 4:36 PM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] meals on wheels
>
>On 17 Mar 2006, at 16:10, Tom Ivie wrote:
>
>
>This really sounds like a silent tragedy. I am surprised the papers
>haven't done anything with this story. I don't think most people realize
>the situations (physical, mental, social, etc. ) of the people who benefit
>from meals on wheels. I hope for our seniors sake that this can get
>resolved soon. Linda Pike is a real go-getter and if anyone can find a
>workable solution, she can.
>
>
>I agree with you, Tom, except for the part where you express surprise that
>this story has not been covered by our local papers. That's the one piece
>of this whole ordeal that doesn't surprise me at all. The Daily News has
>fallen to bits. While Ed Iverson piddles away all the editorial board's
>credibility on the Op-Ed page, the Daily News staff miss story after story
>after story. And what they do cover they generally screw up. "WalMart Given
>Yellow Light By
>Moscow P & Z?" Was the DN reporter attending the same P & Z meeting that
>everyone else attended? I don't think so; I think their reporter was (once
>again) in a parallel universe. You know, that universe in which Tom
>Henderson of the Lewiston Tribune bemoans the fact that when George Bush
>breaks the law, Congress changes the law to make Bush's actions
>retroactively legal. Meanwhile, Henderson's wife, Virginia, argues on
>behalf of the Daily New that when Doug Wilson defies city zoning ordinance
>not once, not twice, but three times, it is both wise and reasonable for
>the city to set fire to its comprehensive plan in order to rewrite the
>zoning laws to suit him. Fascinatin', ain't it?
>
>Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
>www.joanopyr.com
>
>PS: I fear that while Doug screams persecution, what he actually gets is
>special treatment. Say, do you think their might be a
>connection? If I flash my ULC Minister's card around, will the city let me
>run a meth lab in my chicken house? It sure would help me pay the mortgage
>and, um, meth is part of my religious observance. Yeah, that's the ticket!
>Yeah! And marijuana, too. I need a greenhouse and some grow lamps. Anyone
>care to make a Church of Auntie Establishment tax-fraud-deductible "love
>gift?" Or perhaps buy me a new truck? You can do that in my church just as
>easily as in Doug's -- and the truck doesn't have to be new. In fact, it
>doesn't have to be a truck. I'm still plumping for that 1968 Mustang
>Fastback, folks!
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>_____________________________________________________
> List services made available by First Step Internet,
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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