My church gives our priests a house, a salary, medical care, and a CAR. Imagine that, even with God's love, he still needs that stuff.<br> <br> _DJA <br><br><b><i>J Ford <privatejf32@hotmail.com></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> I didn't have the same reaction to the article that you apparently did. <br>Both Joan and Art Deco were saying the same thing...Christ was/is for the <br>support of the poor, the sick and the infirmed. Giving a $17K truck to an <br>unordained "pastor" of a church that does not even support the food banks or <br>the other pastoral assistance programs in Moscow and whose own elders state <br>they take care of only those few they choice are worthy of helping, and who <br>is someone that can afford to buy his own stupid truck, is sick and an abuse <br>of the position. The only reason he was given the truck was for a "show of <br>support" for !
Doug's
sticking with the church. Yeah, some promotion of God's <br>word going on there. Ever read were Jesus took such gratuitous show of <br>support? No!<br><br>This article is a call for "pastors" to get off their high thrones and start <br>doing Jesus' work. This INCLUDES helping out with the Meals program and any <br>other program that WOULD meet with Jesus' approval. Building up of <br>institutions and filling the pockets of the "pastor" is NOT what Jesus <br>did/does/will want. In fact, He speaks against wealth on many, many <br>occasions...<br><br>"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich <br>man to enter into the Kingdom of God." Matt 19:24<br><br>J :]<br><br><br><br><br>>From: "Ellen Roskovich" <gussie443 @hotmail.com=""><br>>To: deco@moscow.com, vision2020@moscow.com<br>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] meals on wheels<br>>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:59:49 -0800<br>><br>><br>>This is SO MISLEADING. This has NOTHING t!
o do with
MEALS ON WHEELS. This <br>>is a PRIVATE little inside joke with Joan.<br>><br>>The only reason I opened this was because I thought it was some new info on <br>>the Meals on Wheels dilemma. . . . THAT I am interested in. But NO, it's <br>>just you being yourself.<br>><br>>Where's my DELETE button. . . . .<br>><br>>Ellen Roskovich<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>>From: "Art Deco" <deco @moscow.com=""><br>>To: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 @moscow.com=""><br>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] meals on wheels<br>>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:17:32 -0800<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>>Joan,<br>><br>>You make several interesting points about the Wilson & Family's Cult & Cash <br>>Machine. However, the reference to the gift of a truck by cult members to <br>>the Cultmaster is a very telling one. It shows how unchristian the <br>>organization and its starry-eyed flo!
ck is and
how far they have <br>>hypocritically wandered from the teachings of Christ in whom they allege to <br>>believe.<br>><br>>What should be the object of a Christian's charity according to the Gospels <br>>of Christ? The poor and the sick!<br>><br>>But don't just take the word of a nonbeliever for it. Below, with emphasis <br>>added, is a timely article by a religious professional from the USAToday of <br>>March 12, 2006 discussing this same subject, albeit in a wider context, and <br>>much more eloquently than I can.<br>><br>>Read it and draw your own conclusions not only about the Wilson & Family's <br>>Cult & Cash Machine but about some other area religious organizations. The <br>>subject of this thread and the issue it deals with is a perfect opportunity <br>>for Christians and so-called Christian organizations to demonstrate their <br>>commitment to the major teachings of the
Gospels.<br>><br>>Cheers,<br>><br>><br>>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<br>>deco@moscow.com<br>><br>>_______________________________________________<br>>Posted 3/12/2006 8:27 PM USAToday<br>><br>>Not heard from the pulpit<br>><br>>By Tom Ehrich<br>><br>>Preachers and Sunday school teachers are pulling their punches these days <br>>regarding morality. Our nation needs ethical and religious instruction in <br>>the basics: honesty, fidelity, humility, sharing wealth, sharing power and <br>>sacrifice. Yet those are the last topics one is likely to hear in churches.<br>><br>>Instead, for more than a decade, preachers have been grandstanding about <br>>such secondary issues as sexuality, Christmas greetings and <br>>institution-building.<br>><br>>Consider the day in 2004 when former Enron Corp. chief Ken Lay appeared in <br>>federal court to answer an 11-count indictment for fraud, conspiracy and <br>>false st!
atements.
(Lay is on trial in Houston.) On the way to court, he <br>>stopped by Houston's prominent First United Methodist Church to pray. His <br>>pastor accompanied him when he turned himself in to authorities.<br>><br>>Good gestures, to be sure, but how had Lay, a regular worshiper and lay <br>>leader, gotten so ethically challenged? Some ethical guidance clearly had <br>>gone unheard or unspoken. His church encourages "disciplines of faithful <br>>living," but current Sunday classes sound the bell for self-improvement, <br>>not sacrificial giving or courageous honesty in a world growing accustomed <br>>to deceit.<br>><br>>When WorldCom chief Bernard Ebbers began to feel the heat of scandal, he <br>>stood before his friends at Easthaven Baptist Church, in Brookhaven, Miss., <br>>and declared, "I just want you to know you aren't going to church with a <br>>crook." A federal jury disagreed and convicted him of fraud. How could a <br>>dedi!
cated
Sunday school teacher have gotten so off track? His church's <br>>mission statement is about the institution's growth potential, not about <br>>living decent lives.<br>><br>>Attending church surely doesn't make one immune to ungodly deeds? we are <br>>all sinners, after all? but churchgoers should be able to get guidance on <br>>how to lead a responsible life, not reminders of church politics, from the <br>>pulpit.<br>><br>>Jesus devoted roughly two-thirds of his teachings to our need to give away <br>>wealth and to value humility and servanthood more than power. Paul <br>>condemned "love of money." Hebrew prophets spoke forcefully against greed, <br>>bribery and injustice. The Law of Moses is concerned with basic ethics? <br>>respect for persons and property, truth-telling, generosity and mercy.<br>><br>>Yet, in the typical congregation, it is safer to preach about someone <br>>else's sexual behavior than about wise and faith!
ful use
of money, or on <br>>economic dislocation, corporate ethics or widening gaps in the distribution <br>>of wealth. That's my conclusion based on a survey of several dozen websites <br>>and posted sermons, as well as my experience both as a preacher and <br>>listener.<br>><br>>One winning formula goes after themes that are minor in Scripture but big <br>>in the culture wars.<br>><br>>Consider Tom DeLay, often identified as a born-again Christian, whose <br>>indictment for money laundering forced him to resign as Republican leader <br>>in the House of Representatives. A recent sermon series at a church with <br>>which he used to be associated condemned homosexuality, abortion and <br>>gambling. But it ignored Scripture's more basic theme of honesty and mercy <br>>as hallmarks of truth, and leadership as requiring people "who fear God, <br>>are trustworthy, and hate dishonest gain."<br>><br>>With rare exceptions, preachers of al!
l stripes
seem to avoid what Jesus <br>>said about wealth and power. Instead, they preach about church politics, <br>>upcoming festivals and personal improvement.<br>><br>>Despite cascading corporate and political scandals, a widening gap between <br>>rich and poor and mounting arrogance in public life, I read hardly a word <br>>about honesty, integrity, mercy, forgiveness, generosity, kindness or <br>>humility.<br>><br>>I know how dangerous it is to venture into the nuts and bolts of Christian <br>>ethics. People will endure sermons about esoterica such as stem cell <br>>research or same-sex marriage, but they'll squirm when talk turns to <br>>personal priorities, time spent away from family, wealth accumulation, <br>>casual adultery or truth-telling. It is safer to lambaste gays than to tout <br>>Jesus' model of embracing diversity. It is more profitable to back one <br>>political party than to call all leaders to account for their behav!
ior. A
<br>>dull preacher will be tolerated; an intrusive one will be fired.<br>><br>>Our nation needs better from us. We don't need extremist politics <br>>masquerading as Christian morality. We need solid and consistent <br>>instruction in the basics of godly living. We can't hold churches <br>>accountable for what parishioners refuse to hear. But we can hold them <br>>accountable for what they shrink from saying.<br>><br>>Tom Ehrich is an Episcopal pastor, author, teacher and writer in Durham, <br>>N.C.<br>><br>><br>>----- Original Message -----<br>>From: Joan Opyr<br>>To: Tom Ivie<br>>Cc: Vision2020 Moscow<br>>Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 4:36 PM<br>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] meals on wheels<br>><br>>On 17 Mar 2006, at 16:10, Tom Ivie wrote:<br>><br>><br>>This really sounds like a silent tragedy. I am surprised the papers <br>>haven't done anything with this story. I don't think most people realize <br>&g!
t;the
situations (physical, mental, social, etc. ) of the people who benefit <br>>from meals on wheels. I hope for our seniors sake that this can get <br>>resolved soon. Linda Pike is a real go-getter and if anyone can find a <br>>workable solution, she can.<br>><br>><br>>I agree with you, Tom, except for the part where you express surprise that <br>>this story has not been covered by our local papers. That's the one piece <br>>of this whole ordeal that doesn't surprise me at all. The Daily News has <br>>fallen to bits. While Ed Iverson piddles away all the editorial board's <br>>credibility on the Op-Ed page, the Daily News staff miss story after story <br>>after story. And what they do cover they generally screw up. "WalMart Given <br>>Yellow Light By<br>>Moscow P & Z?" Was the DN reporter attending the same P & Z meeting that <br>>everyone else attended? I don't think so; I think their reporter was (once <br>>again) in a pa!
rallel
universe. You know, that universe in which Tom <br>>Henderson of the Lewiston Tribune bemoans the fact that when George Bush <br>>breaks the law, Congress changes the law to make Bush's actions <br>>retroactively legal. Meanwhile, Henderson's wife, Virginia, argues on <br>>behalf of the Daily New that when Doug Wilson defies city zoning ordinance <br>>not once, not twice, but three times, it is both wise and reasonable for <br>>the city to set fire to its comprehensive plan in order to rewrite the <br>>zoning laws to suit him. Fascinatin', ain't it?<br>><br>>Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment<br>>www.joanopyr.com<br>><br>>PS: I fear that while Doug screams persecution, what he actually gets is <br>>special treatment. Say, do you think their might be a<br>>connection? If I flash my ULC Minister's card around, will the city let me <br>>run a meth lab in my chicken house? It sure would help me pay the mortgage <br>>and, um, meth is p!
art of my
religious observance. Yeah, that's the ticket! <br>>Yeah! And marijuana, too. I need a greenhouse and some grow lamps. Anyone <br>>care to make a Church of Auntie Establishment tax-fraud-deductible "love <br>>gift?" Or perhaps buy me a new truck? You can do that in my church just as <br>>easily as in Doug's -- and the truck doesn't have to be new. In fact, it <br>>doesn't have to be a truck. I'm still plumping for that 1968 Mustang <br>>Fastback, folks!<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>>_____________________________________________________<br>>List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>>http://www.fsr.net <br>>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>>/////////////////////////////////////////////////////<br>><br>><br>><br>> >_____________________________________________________<br>> > List service!
s made
available by First Step Internet,<br>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> > http://www.fsr.net<br>> > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> >ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ<br>><br>><br>><br>><br><br><br>>_____________________________________________________<br>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> http://www.fsr.net<br>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ<br><br>_________________________________________________________________<br>On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to <br>get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement<br><br>_____________________________________________________<br> List services made available by First Step Internet, <br> serving the communities of the Pal!
ouse
since 1994. <br> http://www.fsr.net <br> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ<br></vision2020></deco></gussie443></blockquote><br><p>
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