[Vision2020] Re: pastoral attacks

Sat Mar 18 18:10:18 PST 2006

What?!

This has NOTHING to do with a priest's salary (which, BTW, includes the cost 
of rent for that house, medical, car, etc. that he uses.)  Doug was given a 
truck, a COLLECTOR's item, as a show of "Atta Boy!" NOT the same thing as a 
priest's salary and/or compensation package.

J  :]

>From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>
>To: J Ford <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>, vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: pastoral attacks
>Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 12:26:58 -0800 (PST)
>
>My church gives our priests a house, a salary, medical care, and a CAR.  
>Imagine that,  even with God's love, he still needs that stuff.
>
>   _DJA
>
>J Ford <privatejf32 at hotmail.com> wrote:  I didn't have the same reaction to 
>the article that you apparently did.
>Both Joan and Art Deco were saying the same thing...Christ was/is for the
>support of the poor, the sick and the infirmed.  Giving a $17K truck to an
>unordained "pastor" of a church that does not even support the food banks 
>or
>the other pastoral assistance programs in Moscow and whose own elders state
>they take care of only those few they choice are worthy of helping, and who
>is someone that can afford to buy his own stupid truck, is sick and an 
>abuse
>of the position.  The only reason he was given the truck was for a "show of
>support" for Doug's sticking with the church.  Yeah, some promotion of 
>God's
>word going on there.  Ever read were Jesus took such gratuitous show of
>support?  No!
>
>This article is a call for "pastors" to get off their high thrones and 
>start
>doing Jesus' work.  This INCLUDES helping out with the Meals program and 
>any
>other program that WOULD meet with Jesus' approval.  Building up of
>institutions and filling the pockets of the "pastor" is NOT what Jesus
>did/does/will want.  In fact, He speaks against wealth on many, many
>occasions...
>
>"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich
>man to enter into the Kingdom of God."  Matt 19:24
>
>J  :]
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Ellen Roskovich"
> >To: deco at moscow.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] meals on wheels
> >Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:59:49 -0800
> >
> >
> >This is SO MISLEADING.  This has NOTHING to do with MEALS ON WHEELS.  
>This
> >is a PRIVATE little inside joke with Joan.
> >
> >The only reason I opened this was because I thought it was some new info 
>on
> >the Meals on Wheels dilemma. . . . THAT I am interested in.  But NO, it's
> >just you being yourself.
> >
> >Where's my DELETE button. . . . .
> >
> >Ellen Roskovich
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >From: "Art Deco"
> >To: "Vision 2020"
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] meals on wheels
> >Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 08:17:32 -0800
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Joan,
> >
> >You make several interesting points about the Wilson & Family's Cult & 
>Cash
> >Machine.  However, the reference to the gift of a truck by cult members 
>to
> >the Cultmaster is a very telling one.  It shows how unchristian the
> >organization and its starry-eyed flock is and how far they have
> >hypocritically wandered from the teachings of Christ in whom they allege 
>to
> >believe.
> >
> >What should be the object of a Christian's charity according to the 
>Gospels
> >of Christ?  The poor and the sick!
> >
> >But don't just take the word of a nonbeliever for it.  Below, with 
>emphasis
> >added, is a timely article by a religious professional from the USAToday 
>of
> >March 12, 2006 discussing this same subject, albeit in a wider context, 
>and
> >much more eloquently than I can.
> >
> >Read it and draw your own conclusions not only about the Wilson & 
>Family's
> >Cult & Cash Machine but about some other area religious organizations.  
>The
> >subject of this thread and the issue it deals with is a perfect 
>opportunity
> >for Christians and so-called Christian organizations to demonstrate their
> >commitment to the major teachings of the Gospels.
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >
> >Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
> >deco at moscow.com
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Posted 3/12/2006 8:27 PM  USAToday
> >
> >Not heard from the pulpit
> >
> >By Tom Ehrich
> >
> >Preachers and Sunday school teachers are pulling their punches these days
> >regarding morality. Our nation needs ethical and religious instruction in
> >the basics: honesty, fidelity, humility, sharing wealth, sharing power 
>and
> >sacrifice. Yet those are the last topics one is likely to hear in 
>churches.
> >
> >Instead, for more than a decade, preachers have been grandstanding about
> >such secondary issues as sexuality, Christmas greetings and
> >institution-building.
> >
> >Consider the day in 2004 when former Enron Corp. chief Ken Lay appeared 
>in
> >federal court to answer an 11-count indictment for fraud, conspiracy and
> >false statements. (Lay is on trial in Houston.) On the way to court, he
> >stopped by Houston's prominent First United Methodist Church to pray. His
> >pastor accompanied him when he turned himself in to authorities.
> >
> >Good gestures, to be sure, but how had Lay, a regular worshiper and lay
> >leader, gotten so ethically challenged? Some ethical guidance clearly had
> >gone unheard or unspoken. His church encourages "disciplines of faithful
> >living," but current Sunday classes sound the bell for self-improvement,
> >not sacrificial giving or courageous honesty in a world growing 
>accustomed
> >to deceit.
> >
> >When WorldCom chief Bernard Ebbers began to feel the heat of scandal, he
> >stood before his friends at Easthaven Baptist Church, in Brookhaven, 
>Miss.,
> >and declared, "I just want you to know you aren't going to church with a
> >crook." A federal jury disagreed and convicted him of fraud. How could a
> >dedicated Sunday school teacher have gotten so off track? His church's
> >mission statement is about the institution's growth potential, not about
> >living decent lives.
> >
> >Attending church surely doesn't make one immune to ungodly deeds? we are
> >all sinners, after all? but churchgoers should be able to get guidance on
> >how to lead a responsible life, not reminders of church politics, from 
>the
> >pulpit.
> >
> >Jesus devoted roughly two-thirds of his teachings to our need to give 
>away
> >wealth and to value humility and servanthood more than power. Paul
> >condemned "love of money." Hebrew prophets spoke forcefully against 
>greed,
> >bribery and injustice. The Law of Moses is concerned with basic ethics?
> >respect for persons and property, truth-telling, generosity and mercy.
> >
> >Yet, in the typical congregation, it is safer to preach about someone
> >else's sexual behavior than about wise and faithful use of money, or on
> >economic dislocation, corporate ethics or widening gaps in the 
>distribution
> >of wealth. That's my conclusion based on a survey of several dozen 
>websites
> >and posted sermons, as well as my experience both as a preacher and
> >listener.
> >
> >One winning formula goes after themes that are minor in Scripture but big
> >in the culture wars.
> >
> >Consider Tom DeLay, often identified as a born-again Christian, whose
> >indictment for money laundering forced him to resign as Republican leader
> >in the House of Representatives. A recent sermon series at a church with
> >which he used to be associated condemned homosexuality, abortion and
> >gambling. But it ignored Scripture's more basic theme of honesty and 
>mercy
> >as hallmarks of truth, and leadership as requiring people "who fear God,
> >are trustworthy, and hate dishonest gain."
> >
> >With rare exceptions, preachers of all stripes seem to avoid what Jesus
> >said about wealth and power. Instead, they preach about church politics,
> >upcoming festivals and personal improvement.
> >
> >Despite cascading corporate and political scandals, a widening gap 
>between
> >rich and poor and mounting arrogance in public life, I read hardly a word
> >about honesty, integrity, mercy, forgiveness, generosity, kindness or
> >humility.
> >
> >I know how dangerous it is to venture into the nuts and bolts of 
>Christian
> >ethics. People will endure sermons about esoterica such as stem cell
> >research or same-sex marriage, but they'll squirm when talk turns to
> >personal priorities, time spent away from family, wealth accumulation,
> >casual adultery or truth-telling. It is safer to lambaste gays than to 
>tout
> >Jesus' model of embracing diversity. It is more profitable to back one
> >political party than to call all leaders to account for their behavior. A
> >dull preacher will be tolerated; an intrusive one will be fired.
> >
> >Our nation needs better from us. We don't need extremist politics
> >masquerading as Christian morality. We need solid and consistent
> >instruction in the basics of godly living. We can't hold churches
> >accountable for what parishioners refuse to hear. But we can hold them
> >accountable for what they shrink from saying.
> >
> >Tom Ehrich is an Episcopal pastor, author, teacher and writer in Durham,
> >N.C.
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: Joan Opyr
> >To: Tom Ivie
> >Cc: Vision2020 Moscow
> >Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 4:36 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] meals on wheels
> >
> >On 17 Mar 2006, at 16:10, Tom Ivie wrote:
> >
> >
> >This really sounds like a silent tragedy.  I am surprised the papers
> >haven't done anything with this story. I don't think most people realize
> >the situations (physical, mental, social, etc. ) of the people who 
>benefit
> >from meals on wheels. I hope for our seniors sake that this can get
> >resolved soon.  Linda Pike is a real go-getter and if anyone can find a
> >workable solution, she can.
> >
> >
> >I agree with you, Tom, except for the part where you express surprise 
>that
> >this story has not been covered by our local papers. That's the one piece
> >of this whole ordeal that doesn't surprise me at all. The Daily News has
> >fallen to bits. While Ed Iverson piddles away all the editorial board's
> >credibility on the Op-Ed page, the Daily News staff miss story after 
>story
> >after story. And what they do cover they generally screw up. "WalMart 
>Given
> >Yellow Light By
> >Moscow P & Z?" Was the DN reporter attending the same P & Z meeting that
> >everyone else attended? I don't think so; I think their reporter was 
>(once
> >again) in a parallel universe. You know, that universe in which Tom
> >Henderson of the Lewiston Tribune bemoans the fact that when George Bush
> >breaks the law, Congress changes the law to make Bush's actions
> >retroactively legal. Meanwhile, Henderson's wife, Virginia, argues on
> >behalf of the Daily New that when Doug Wilson defies city zoning 
>ordinance
> >not once, not twice, but three times, it is both wise and reasonable for
> >the city to set fire to its comprehensive plan in order to rewrite the
> >zoning laws to suit him. Fascinatin', ain't it?
> >
> >Joan Opyr/Auntie Establishment
> >www.joanopyr.com
> >
> >PS: I fear that while Doug screams persecution, what he actually gets is
> >special treatment. Say, do you think their might be a
> >connection? If I flash my ULC Minister's card around, will the city let 
>me
> >run a meth lab in my chicken house? It sure would help me pay the 
>mortgage
> >and, um, meth is part of my religious observance. Yeah, that's the 
>ticket!
> >Yeah! And marijuana, too. I need a greenhouse and some grow lamps. Anyone
> >care to make a Church of Auntie Establishment tax-fraud-deductible "love
> >gift?" Or perhaps buy me a new truck? You can do that in my church just 
>as
> >easily as in Doug's -- and the truck doesn't have to be new. In fact, it
> >doesn't have to be a truck. I'm still plumping for that 1968 Mustang
> >Fastback, folks!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >_____________________________________________________
> >List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >http://www.fsr.net
> >mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
> >
> >
> >
> > >_____________________________________________________
> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > > http://www.fsr.net
> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > >¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> >_____________________________________________________
> >  List services made available by First Step Internet,
> >  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >                http://www.fsr.net
> >           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> >¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
>
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>_____________________________________________________
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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