[Vision2020] (Formally known as:Photos Tell All) Now changing thread topic to:"Now for something entirely different to make Michael happy and stick to the unpublished norms!"

Thu Jun 22 13:16:47 PDT 2006

Doug,

What you say here is entirely false, as I have already pointed out more than
once.  I had already proven Dale wrong long after folks figured out I was
kirker.  I continued to defend Christ Church and Doug Wilson on this list
for a number of weeks if not months before I went public with criticism of
Doug Wilson.  Perhaps the reason why I did not get "venom" as Dale predicted
is that I did not call my debate opponent a venomous, blind, idiot.  It's a
method you might want to try sometime.  And I should note here that you
simply need to stop; kirker apologetics is what the bible calls wrong.

Thanks

Michael

Mike,

Thanks for clearing it up that it wasn't me that made the comments about
Blind 2020 being "a slew of shit"

What ever Dale said to you couldn't have come to pass because Wayne and
others found out that you hated Doug Wilson more than they did!

As to correcting your memory with evidence and speaking the truth.... 

Wouldn't that be a double standard on your part. You stopped using the rules
of evidence and witnesses last year.

lemeno, Doug!

Doug,

I'm not sure what help you think I was looking for.  First: no, I was not
referencing you; the young man I was referencing was very concerned about my
moral standing and spiritual strength; he questioned anyone's ability to
discuss their faith on Vision 2020 without becoming defiled.  He said that
it all was "a slew of shit."  Second: I never mentioned that I was on a
mission, and I never mentioned that I planned on anything coming to fruition
to you.  But you usually don't say anything true about me while on a public
forum, so I won't be alarmed about this. What I do recall is Dale Courtney
telling me that it was soon going to be over once Wayne and others found out
that I was a kirker; they were going to spew their venom and eat me alive.

I explained to Dale that I did not agree with him; he told me to just wait
and see.  That is about the only discussion I can recall that gets close to
the "mission" issue you raise here.  But feel free to correct my memory with
some evidence if you can.

Lastly, you never called me to "get my perspective," but rather to warn me
what kind of creeps I was dealing with, and you tried to give me some dirt
on a number of posters here.

Thanks

Michael

Mike,

Does this help? I would like to change topics, sort of. You made a statement
below that I thought was curious. You said, "As one kirker explained, Vision
2020 is a slew of shit and I was an idiot for even talking to the people who
post to it."

I was wondering if you were re-phrasing what I had privatelly talked to you
over the phone last year when I was trying to get your perspective on all of
this. I think the conversation was about Jackie Wolfe. I had mentioned that
maybe you should go easy on here because of her frail condition. You said
you were just trying to understand all of the players.

You also mentioned that the mission you were on to infiltrate the
"intolerista" web zone would soon come to fruition or something like that.

That's when I mentioned that Blind 2020 was similar to a septic system in
that one needs to "airate the sludge from time to time in order for the good
bactiria to break down the crap and turn it back into clean water and
fertilizer." I think those were my exact words.

If I got any thing wrong or you wish to discuss this as an apologetic
discussion about fertilizer and the gospel (sort of along the lines of
death, burial and resurection.) Would that fit the mentality and spiritual
condition of "the typical evangelical Christian" as you called them.

lemeno, Doug!

PS. I didn't see Keely wearing a Trinity fest badge when we cordially 

met

that night.

Rob,

For a little background: You directed your insults my direction not long

ago, but in more direct fashion. You and I were friends. I had you over

to

my house for dinner. I employed you and we worked together a bit. We

talked about business, your life aspirations, your current work, your

history. I offered you nothing but kindness and hospitality. Then one

day I

started a web site and I was criticizing your pastor's slander of

another

minister-continuing an already public discussion. You jumped on without

any

notice or private communication and began mocking me, ridiculing sincere

comments, and intentionally breaking the very rules I laid out for

posting

to my private web site. This response here is the first time you have

treated me like a human being, and you have not initiated any private

correspondence with me throughout all this. Not only is this not

Christian

behavior, this is not sociological normal within stable civilizations

generally speaking; i.e., the 'pagans' usually do far better than this.

It is not hard to see the Kirk edge here either, albeit in more subtle,

creative form. This is a community, public, forum; this is not a three

way

call between three junior-high jocks. When posting, folks make sure the

content of the post is coherent-which is politeness to any reader

trying to

figure out if there is something generally of interest to read. When

posting, folks also insure that the content of the post matches Subject

title for convenience to the general readership. Folks are also polite

enough to choose a different subject title when they decide to post on

something entirely different than the current topic of discussion. You

and

your associates know all of this, which is why you are posting the way

you

do, intentionally breaking all of these norms. You do so not to

illustrate

a productive point or to encourage anyone to truth or good deeds;

rather,

you do so to vandalize a forum that you consider a threat and a

nuisance.

As one kirker explained, Vision 2020 is a slew of shit and I was an

idiot

for even talking to the people who post to it. Wilson has sought to get

it

exterminated, and refers to this forum as "moonbats" and "Purblind."

Most

kirkers will at least call it Venom2020. I can't speak for others, but I

know that I would prefer profanity and name calling to someone

high-jacking

the threads that I tried to generate, particularly when I know it is

because

they have no respect for me and do not like what I am talking about.

None of

you even experiment in offering kindness or understanding to your

opponents,

nor do you give simple rational discourse a chance. I was of course

referring all of the kirkers engaging in this new practice.

If you think that the arguments Tom and J Ford have presented regarding

the

pictures are unsound, feel free to point this out in a way that gives

other

people a reason to read your posting under the thread generated by these

arguments. And again, I'm sad to see you spend your time on this list in

such a way when there is currently an apologetic discussion about

submission

and the gospel going on. That would typically be far more interesting

to the

typical evangelical Christian.

I hope that helps explain. Let me know if you have any further

questions.

Michael

Mike

Who did I insult?

Jackie provided a link to the Trinity Fest pictures on the Trinity Fest

web-page . . .they are fun pictures, and not very controversial.

Rob

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