[Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash

Heather Linn heatherlinn at hotmail.com
Thu Jun 15 23:52:47 PDT 2006 

Mr. London,

I think our disagreement is about the fundamental nature of reality which 
would make any post from me hopelessly inadequate. Personally, because I 
embrace the world the Apostle Paul describes, I think my husband and I 
relate to each other in such a way that maximizes our potential. G.K. 
Chesterton sums up my thoughts better than I can in his poem "Comparisons"

If I set the sun beside the moon,
And if I set the land beside the sea,
And if I set the town beside the country,
And if I set the man beside the woman,
I suppose some fool would talk about one being better

Different roles, different strengths, does not mean different values. While 
I can't make any promises, if any one feels so inclined I'd be happy to try 
and answer questions off list.

Cheers, hasta la pasta, peace out, etc.

Heather (now unsubscribing) Wilson


>From: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>
>To: "Heather Linn" <heatherlinn at hotmail.com>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash
>Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:32:19 -0700
>
>H-
>     My questions were asked in all seriousness.  Honest.  I am trying to
>understand.  You write (below): "The misconceptions I've read on this forum
>about Chritst Church woman are often astounding."
>     I would hope that you would use this opportunity to explain those
>misconceptions.
>     Let me start from the core of my concern.  We have a daughter (now 
>28).
>During her school years, I was the stay-at-home parent.  We have a very
>strong relationship.  I could never envision limiting her goals or
>aspirations in any way, and certainly never suggested that she should find
>fulfillment in a marriage where she was submissive to her husband.
>     I just don't get it.  Why would you choose such a path for yourself?
>Why would you choose that path for your daughters?
>     And now to get back to your responses:
>     1. " Does that assume husbands never make a mistake?" you say no...but
>how could you agree to submit to your husband unless his judgement was
>always correct?  You would not be allowed to redirect or change your
>husband's decision, right?  (talking about what books you read just doesn't
>count...I am referring to much more significant decisions)
>     2. "Does that mean you are explicitly telling your daughters that they
>are inferior (in skill, talent, judgement, etc)?"  You say no, but I do not
>see how the message comes through in any other way.
>     I hope you do not leave the V2020 conversation now.
>BL
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Heather Linn" <heatherlinn at hotmail.com>
>To: <london at moscow.com>; <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2006 2:05 PM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash
>
>
> > Mr. London,
> >
> > I had trouble telling whether you were asking real questions but I'll do
>my
> > best to answer in all seriousness.
> >
> > " Does that assume husbands never make a mistake?" I feel silly even
> > responding to this. No. No. No. I am conviced Russians are a fun summer
> > read. Nate prefers Pratchett. He is wrong.
> >
> > "Does that mean you are explicitly telling your daughters that they are
> > inferior (in skill, talent, judgement, etc)?"
> > Same as above. No. No. No. Nate and I hope to give our daughters (and 
>son)
> > the most thorough education available and opportunties to excell in
> > academics, athlectics, design -- wherever they may be gifted. Americans
>are
> > so bad at heiarchies, they can't help but confuse responsibility for
> > ontological or essential superiority. Because we like the Apostle Paul,
> > people decide that we're thoughtless doormats.
> >
> > Of course, if we do everything that I would  like to do for our 
>daughters
> > there may be some downsides. It might be tough for them to find husbands
>who
> > aren't 'inferior' to them. And if they do find men strong enough to make
> > them happy, the poor boys will have their hands full.
> >
> > The misconceptions I've read on this forum about Chritst Church woman 
>are
> > often astounding. We're far from a cookie cut batch. When I met my
>husband,
> > I had just surfed my first pro contest and was on my way to Ireland to
>watch
> > a girlfriend receive her doctorate. A good friend of mine (who also had
> > coffee with Keely) received a double masters from Duke in law and
>divinity,
> > and when she decided to pass on the country's power firms in order to
>settle
> > down in Moscow, she didn't think she was taking the 'inferior' path.
> >
> > Anyway, I'll be signing off from V2020 at the end of the day since I'm 
>too
> > busy to keep posting and don't generally find this forum conducive to
> > community betterment. I've enjoyed interacting with many of you face to
>face
> > and I hope to do so more in the future.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Heather
> >
> > >From: "Bill London" <london at moscow.com>
> > >To: "Heather Linn" <heatherlinn at hotmail.com>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash
> > >Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 15:40:00 -0700
> > >
> > >Heather:
> > >First, many thanks for posting to V2020 (really).  The Christ Church
>women
> > >have been often discussed on V2020, and I am glad you are speaking
>directly
> > >to us now...... which brings me to my second point: I am trying to
> > >understand the "wife submits to husband" thing.
> > >Can you explain that to me?  Does that assume husbands never make a
> > >mistake?
> > >Does that mean you are explicitly telling your daughters that they are
> > >inferior (in skill, talent, judgement, etc)?
> > >BL
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Heather Linn" <heatherlinn at hotmail.com>
> > >To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > >Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 2:38 PM
> > >Subject: [Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash
> > >
> > >
> > > > First, I'd like to thank Keely for joining us for coffee. I'm glad 
>to
> > >hear
> > > > that she enjoyed herself
> > > > as did we. However, I'd like to point out that there seems to be an
> > > > alternative she's missed or at least is unable to consider. Perhaps
>not
> > >all
> > > > information out there in V2020 land and the blog world
> > > > concerning our church, our pastor, and our husbands is true. Perhaps
>we,
> > > > women whom Keely views as "reasonable, intelligent and sincere in
>their
> > > > faith", have a better grasp on our own situations and lives than 
>those
> > >who
> > > > don't know us. We aren't merely "willing to endure" our husbands and
>our
> > > > theology  but rather enjoy (love) them both. Why would "intelligent"
> > >women
> > > > love living with domineering patriarchal peacocks? Maybe we're not
> > >actually
> > > > intelligent. Maybe we don't really love them. Or, the option you
>haven't
> > > > been willing to consider, maybe they aren't domineering at all.
> > >Longshot,
> > >I
> > > > know. But it is possible.
> > > >
> > > > We don't "grieve, or are at least puzzled by, [your] Biblical
>feminism,
> > > > outspokenness against Doug
> > > > Wilson, and [your] sharp theological disagreements with Christ
>Church."
> > >I've
> > > > been curious how you've drawn your conclusions but unlike what has
>been
> > > > asserted, we don't all mind when people
> > > > disagree. In fact, it can make community life a lot more interesting
>and
> > > > fun.
> > > >
> > > > Hope we still seem intelligent when you realize that we are on the
>same
> > >page
> > > > as our husbands. We didn't mary stupid boys out of pity. We like 
>them.
> > > > Mine's even funny.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >
> > > > Heather Wilson
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >keely emerinemix kjajmix1 at msn.com
> > > > >Tue Jun 13 13:25:27 PDT 2006
> > > > >Previous message: [Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >I appreciate Douglas Hunter's wise comments below, as well as Joe's
> > >point
> > > > >that we consider Doug Wilson separately from those unfortunate 
>enough
> > >to
> > >be
> > > > >shepherded by him.
> > > >
> > > > >I had coffee yesterday with five warm, intelligent, delightful 
>women
> > >from
> > > > >Christ Church.  They have every reason to presume that I am as bad
>and
> > >mean
> > > > >as some have depicted me, and yet they've decided to do what mature
> > >women
> > > > >do -- spend some time with me and find out for themselves.  And I 
>am
> > > > >grateful for the invitation extended, the warmth expressed, and the
> > >trust
> > > > >presumed; I
> > > > hope I reciprocated with the same warmth and trust.  I have 
>absolutely
> > > > >nothing against them and would welcome a friendship with any of
>them --
> > >as
> > > > >much as I grieve the bad theology they've embraced, or are willing 
>to
> > > > >endure,  and the hyper-patriarchal and hierarchical worldview it
> > >produces
> > > > >that, I'm convinced, is as bad for men as it is for women.
> > > >
> > > > >But I would imagine they grieve, or are at least puzzled by, my
> > >Biblical
> > > > >feminism, outspokenness against Doug Wilson, and my sharp 
>theological
> > > > >disagreements with Christ Church.  That's fair.  In fact, that's
>great.
> > >I
> > > > >only hope that we can discuss it more.  I have no doubt at all that
>it
> > > > >would be a loving, reasonable, intelligent and stimulating
>discussion,
> > > > >because these women, like most of the folks at Christ Church, are
> > > > >reasonable, intelligent and sincere in their faith.  For every
>unloving
> > > > >Kirk man, many of whom we're all acquainted with here, I know there
>are
> > > > >several more, men and women, who love Christ and are willing to 
>love
>me
> > >in
> > > > >His name.   I feel he same way.
> > > >
> > > > >That doesn't negate my concern and anger about what I know of
>Wilson's
> > > > >world and worldview.  In fact, it heightens it.  I love a good roll
>in
> > >the
> > > > >theological hay of debate, but what's of real consequence is that
>real
> > > > >people -- good people -- get hurt by bad theology and worse 
>conduct.
> > > > >Conscience compels me, then, to defend them and to defend the
>Gospel --
> > >to
> > > > >offer, with gentleness and respect, a reason for the hope that lies
> > >within
> > > > >me; further paraphrasing 1 Peter 3:15, I might add that I hope to
>offer
> > >a
> > > > >reason for the anger and concern that lies within me regarding the
> > >Kirk,
> > > > >and I hope that I've done it with gentleness and respect to the
>sincere
> > >and
> > > > >offered clear, truth-building rebuke when needed.
> > > >
> > > > >And so, I'd like to publicly thank my friend Heather Wilson and her
> > > > >sister-in-law, Meredith Wilson, for a delightful morning yesterday.
> > >(And
> > > > >it wasn't just the delicious coffee cake and great coffee, either!)
> > > >
> > > > >keely
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =====================================================
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> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>

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