[Vision2020] women, C.S. Lewis; Flannery O'Conner

Thu Jun 15 14:09:22 PDT 2006

Mike,

Are you fishing for an invite or am I missing something?

Cheers,

Mrs Nathan D Wilson

>From: "Michael" <metzler at moscow.com>
>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: [Vision2020] women, C.S. Lewis; Flannery O'Conner
>Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 23:19:14 -0700
>
>You girls have fun.  I like southern bells in their fluffy dresses drinking
>tea.   Sorry Bill; no political talk amongst women and men.
>
>
>
>Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>Thanks Keely.  While I think I understand what you're saying, I don't know
>that I've made myself clear. I'd much prefer interacting face to face. All
>the more reason for future coffee. Hope to do it again soon!
>
>
>
>Cheers,
>
>
>
>Heather
>
>
>
>PS and I am glad you enjoyed my friends
>
>
>
>PPS Bill, I hope to take another look at your questions in the morning
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
>
> >To: heatherlinn at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
>
> >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash
>
> >Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 16:31:45 -0700
>
> >
>
> >Unfortunately, I have enough experience with principles at Christ
>
> >Church to not have to rely on Vision 2020, blogs, and anecdote for my
>perspectives.
>
> >And I think I made clear that the women I enjoyed coffee with love
>
> >their husbands -- as they should -- and obviously have embraced a
>
> >theology that they have some affection for as well.
>
> >
>
> >Their husbands are likely very loveable men; their theology, which I'm
>
> >a bit more qualified to discuss, is one I disagree with on a number of
>
> >points, not the least of which is an overarching need to defend
>
> >masculinity and patriarchy at every turn.  It grieves me to see my
>
> >friend Heather, then, exhibiting this same overarching need to defend
>
> >not only the theology but the husbands as well, when I'm content to
>
> >separate the beautiful and appropriate affection between spouses from
>
> >the ugly and Biblically inappropriate demonstration of hard patriarchy,
>
> >whether between spouses or anyone else.  Good men can practice
>
> >patriarchy -- and good men are sometimes married to good women who join
>
> >them in opposing it.  Nobody, though, would suggest -- I didn't -- that
>
> >these women ought to not love their hKeelusbands.  Keep the menfolk and
>
> >dump the patriarchy, I always say.  Which probably explains why I'm not
>
> >invited to many coffee gatherings . . .
>
> >
>
> >Bill asks Heather to discuss "women submitting to men," and I of course
>
> >have volumes to say on the matter.  But I'll wait for her comments, and
>
> >jump in with mine later.  I'm sure that all of us pro-submission folks
>
> >can agree on one thing, though -- it's not gender-based, and is a
>
> >mutual requirement of reciprocity from husband to wife, back again, and
>
> >encompassing the Christian's relationship with everyone in her world,
>
> >but only from a position of strength in the Spirit.
>
> >
>
> >keely
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >From: "Heather Linn" <heatherlinn at hotmail.com>
>
> >To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>
> >Subject: [Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash
>
> >Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 14:38:13 -0700
>
> >
>
> >First, I'd like to thank Keely for joining us for coffee. I'm glad to
>
> >hear that she enjoyed herself as did we. However, I'd like to point out
>
> >that there seems to be an alternative she's missed or at least is
>
> >unable to consider. Perhaps not all information out there in V2020 land
>
> >and the blog world concerning our church, our pastor, and our husbands
>
> >is true. Perhaps we, women whom Keely views as "reasonable, intelligent
>
> >and sincere in their faith", have a better grasp on our own situations
>
> >and lives than those who don't know us. We aren't merely "willing to
>
> >endure" our husbands and our theology  but rather enjoy (love) them
>
> >both. Why would "intelligent" women love living with domineering
>
> >patriarchal peacocks? Maybe we're not actually intelligent. Maybe we
>
> >don't really love them. Or, the option you haven't been willing to
>
> >consider, maybe they aren't domineering at all. Longshot, I know. But
>
> >it is possible.
>
> >
>
> >We don't "grieve, or are at least puzzled by, [your] Biblical feminism,
>
> >outspokenness against Doug Wilson, and [your] sharp theological
>
> >disagreements with Christ Church."
>
> >I've been curious how you've drawn your conclusions but unlike what has
>
> >been asserted, we don't all mind when people disagree. In fact, it can
>
> >make community life a lot more interesting and fun.
>
> >
>
> >Hope we still seem intelligent when you realize that we are on the same
>
> >page as our husbands. We didn't mary stupid boys out of pity. We like 
>them.
>
> >Mine's even funny.
>
> >
>
> >Cheers,
>
> >
>
> >Heather Wilson
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >>keely emerinemix kjajmix1 at msn.com
>
> >>Tue Jun 13 13:25:27 PDT 2006
>
> >>Previous message: [Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >>I appreciate Douglas Hunter's wise comments below, as well as Joe's
>
> >>point that we consider Doug Wilson separately from those unfortunate
>
> >>enough to be shepherded by him.
>
> >
>
> >>I had coffee yesterday with five warm, intelligent, delightful women
>
> >>from Christ Church.  They have every reason to presume that I am as
>
> >>bad and mean as some have depicted me, and yet they've decided to do
>
> >>what mature women do -- spend some time with me and find out for
>
> >>themselves.  And I am grateful for the invitation extended, the warmth
>
> >>expressed, and the trust presumed; I
>
> >hope I reciprocated with the same warmth and trust.  I have absolutely
>
> >>nothing against them and would welcome a friendship with any of them
>
> >>-- as much as I grieve the bad theology they've embraced, or are
>
> >>willing to endure,  and the hyper-patriarchal and hierarchical
>
> >>worldview it produces that, I'm convinced, is as bad for men as it is 
>for
>women.
>
> >
>
> >>But I would imagine they grieve, or are at least puzzled by, my
>
> >>Biblical feminism, outspokenness against Doug Wilson, and my sharp
>
> >>theological disagreements with Christ Church.  That's fair.  In fact,
>
> >>that's great.  I only hope that we can discuss it more.  I have no
>
> >>doubt at all that it would be a loving, reasonable, intelligent and
>
> >>stimulating discussion, because these women, like most of the folks at
>
> >>Christ Church, are reasonable, intelligent and sincere in their faith.
>
> >>For every unloving Kirk man, many of whom we're all acquainted with
>
> >>here, I know there are several more, men and women, who love Christ and
>are willing to love me in
>
> >>His name.   I feel he same way.
>
> >
>
> >>That doesn't negate my concern and anger about what I know of Wilson's
>
> >>world and worldview.  In fact, it heightens it.  I love a good roll in
>
> >>the theological hay of debate, but what's of real consequence is that
>
> >>real people -- good people -- get hurt by bad theology and worse 
>conduct.
>
> >>Conscience compels me, then, to defend them and to defend the Gospel
>
> >>-- to offer, with gentleness and respect, a reason for the hope that
>
> >>lies within me; further paraphrasing 1 Peter 3:15, I might add that I
>
> >>hope to offer a reason for the anger and concern that lies within me
>
> >>regarding the Kirk, and I hope that I've done it with gentleness and
>
> >>respect to the sincere and offered clear, truth-building rebuke when
>needed.
>
> >
>
> >>And so, I'd like to publicly thank my friend Heather Wilson and her
>
> >>sister-in-law, Meredith Wilson, for a delightful morning yesterday.   
>(And
>
>
> >>it wasn't just the delicious coffee cake and great coffee, either!)
>
> >
>
> >>keely
>
> >
>
> >
>
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>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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