[Vision2020] women, C.S. Lewis; Flannery O'Conner

Michael metzler at moscow.com
Wed Jun 14 23:19:14 PDT 2006


You girls have fun.  I like southern bells in their fluffy dresses drinking
tea.   Sorry Bill; no political talk amongst women and men.

 

Michael

 

 

Thanks Keely.  While I think I understand what you're saying, I don't know
that I've made myself clear. I'd much prefer interacting face to face. All
the more reason for future coffee. Hope to do it again soon!

 

Cheers,

 

Heather

 

PS and I am glad you enjoyed my friends

 

PPS Bill, I hope to take another look at your questions in the morning

 

 

>From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>

>To: heatherlinn at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com

>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash

>Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 16:31:45 -0700

> 

>Unfortunately, I have enough experience with principles at Christ 

>Church to not have to rely on Vision 2020, blogs, and anecdote for my
perspectives.

>And I think I made clear that the women I enjoyed coffee with love 

>their husbands -- as they should -- and obviously have embraced a 

>theology that they have some affection for as well.

> 

>Their husbands are likely very loveable men; their theology, which I'm 

>a bit more qualified to discuss, is one I disagree with on a number of 

>points, not the least of which is an overarching need to defend 

>masculinity and patriarchy at every turn.  It grieves me to see my 

>friend Heather, then, exhibiting this same overarching need to defend 

>not only the theology but the husbands as well, when I'm content to 

>separate the beautiful and appropriate affection between spouses from 

>the ugly and Biblically inappropriate demonstration of hard patriarchy, 

>whether between spouses or anyone else.  Good men can practice 

>patriarchy -- and good men are sometimes married to good women who join 

>them in opposing it.  Nobody, though, would suggest -- I didn't -- that 

>these women ought to not love their hKeelusbands.  Keep the menfolk and 

>dump the patriarchy, I always say.  Which probably explains why I'm not 

>invited to many coffee gatherings . . .

> 

>Bill asks Heather to discuss "women submitting to men," and I of course 

>have volumes to say on the matter.  But I'll wait for her comments, and 

>jump in with mine later.  I'm sure that all of us pro-submission folks 

>can agree on one thing, though -- it's not gender-based, and is a 

>mutual requirement of reciprocity from husband to wife, back again, and 

>encompassing the Christian's relationship with everyone in her world, 

>but only from a position of strength in the Spirit.

> 

>keely

> 

> 

>From: "Heather Linn" <heatherlinn at hotmail.com>

>To: vision2020 at moscow.com

>Subject: [Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash

>Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 14:38:13 -0700

> 

>First, I'd like to thank Keely for joining us for coffee. I'm glad to 

>hear that she enjoyed herself as did we. However, I'd like to point out 

>that there seems to be an alternative she's missed or at least is 

>unable to consider. Perhaps not all information out there in V2020 land 

>and the blog world concerning our church, our pastor, and our husbands 

>is true. Perhaps we, women whom Keely views as "reasonable, intelligent 

>and sincere in their faith", have a better grasp on our own situations 

>and lives than those who don't know us. We aren't merely "willing to 

>endure" our husbands and our theology  but rather enjoy (love) them 

>both. Why would "intelligent" women love living with domineering 

>patriarchal peacocks? Maybe we're not actually intelligent. Maybe we 

>don't really love them. Or, the option you haven't been willing to 

>consider, maybe they aren't domineering at all. Longshot, I know. But 

>it is possible.

> 

>We don't "grieve, or are at least puzzled by, [your] Biblical feminism, 

>outspokenness against Doug Wilson, and [your] sharp theological 

>disagreements with Christ Church."

>I've been curious how you've drawn your conclusions but unlike what has 

>been asserted, we don't all mind when people disagree. In fact, it can 

>make community life a lot more interesting and fun.

> 

>Hope we still seem intelligent when you realize that we are on the same 

>page as our husbands. We didn't mary stupid boys out of pity. We like them.

>Mine's even funny.

> 

>Cheers,

> 

>Heather Wilson

> 

> 

>>keely emerinemix kjajmix1 at msn.com

>>Tue Jun 13 13:25:27 PDT 2006

>>Previous message: [Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash

> 

> 

>>I appreciate Douglas Hunter's wise comments below, as well as Joe's 

>>point that we consider Doug Wilson separately from those unfortunate 

>>enough to be shepherded by him.

> 

>>I had coffee yesterday with five warm, intelligent, delightful women 

>>from Christ Church.  They have every reason to presume that I am as 

>>bad and mean as some have depicted me, and yet they've decided to do 

>>what mature women do -- spend some time with me and find out for 

>>themselves.  And I am grateful for the invitation extended, the warmth 

>>expressed, and the trust presumed; I

>hope I reciprocated with the same warmth and trust.  I have absolutely

>>nothing against them and would welcome a friendship with any of them 

>>-- as much as I grieve the bad theology they've embraced, or are 

>>willing to endure,  and the hyper-patriarchal and hierarchical 

>>worldview it produces that, I'm convinced, is as bad for men as it is for
women.

> 

>>But I would imagine they grieve, or are at least puzzled by, my 

>>Biblical feminism, outspokenness against Doug Wilson, and my sharp 

>>theological disagreements with Christ Church.  That's fair.  In fact, 

>>that's great.  I only hope that we can discuss it more.  I have no 

>>doubt at all that it would be a loving, reasonable, intelligent and 

>>stimulating discussion, because these women, like most of the folks at 

>>Christ Church, are reasonable, intelligent and sincere in their faith.  

>>For every unloving Kirk man, many of whom we're all acquainted with 

>>here, I know there are several more, men and women, who love Christ and
are willing to love me in

>>His name.   I feel he same way.

> 

>>That doesn't negate my concern and anger about what I know of Wilson's 

>>world and worldview.  In fact, it heightens it.  I love a good roll in 

>>the theological hay of debate, but what's of real consequence is that 

>>real people -- good people -- get hurt by bad theology and worse conduct.

>>Conscience compels me, then, to defend them and to defend the Gospel 

>>-- to offer, with gentleness and respect, a reason for the hope that 

>>lies within me; further paraphrasing 1 Peter 3:15, I might add that I 

>>hope to offer a reason for the anger and concern that lies within me 

>>regarding the Kirk, and I hope that I've done it with gentleness and 

>>respect to the sincere and offered clear, truth-building rebuke when
needed.

> 

>>And so, I'd like to publicly thank my friend Heather Wilson and her 

>>sister-in-law, Meredith Wilson, for a delightful morning yesterday.   (And


>>it wasn't just the delicious coffee cake and great coffee, either!)

> 

>>keely

> 

> 

>=====================================================

>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the 

>communities of the Palouse since 1994.                 http://www.fsr.net
<http://www.fsr.net/>    

>                              mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com 

>====================================================

> 

>_________________________________________________________________

>Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! 

>http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/

> 

 

 

=====================================================

 List services made available by First Step Internet, 

 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.   

               http://www.fsr.net <http://www.fsr.net/>


          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com

====================================================

 

 

 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/attachments/20060614/681e7e89/attachment-0001.htm


More information about the Vision2020 mailing list