[Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash

[keely emerinemix]

Unfortunately, I have enough experience with principles at Christ Church to 
not have to rely on Vision 2020, blogs, and anecdote for my perspectives.  
And I think I made clear that the women I enjoyed coffee with love their 
husbands -- as they should -- and obviously have embraced a theology that 
they have some affection for as well.

Their husbands are likely very loveable men; their theology, which I'm a bit 
more qualified to discuss, is one I disagree with on a number of points, not 
the least of which is an overarching need to defend masculinity and 
patriarchy at every turn.  It grieves me to see my friend Heather, then, 
exhibiting this same overarching need to defend not only the theology but 
the husbands as well, when I'm content to separate the beautiful and 
appropriate affection between spouses from the ugly and Biblically 
inappropriate demonstration of hard patriarchy, whether between spouses or 
anyone else.  Good men can practice patriarchy -- and good men are sometimes 
married to good women who join them in opposing it.  Nobody, though, would 
suggest -- I didn't -- that these women ought to not love their husbands.  
Keep the menfolk and dump the patriarchy, I always say.  Which probably 
explains why I'm not invited to many coffee gatherings . . .

Bill asks Heather to discuss "women submitting to men," and I of course have 
volumes to say on the matter.  But I'll wait for her comments, and jump in 
with mine later.  I'm sure that all of us pro-submission folks can agree on 
one thing, though -- it's not gender-based, and is a mutual requirement of 
reciprocity from husband to wife, back again, and encompassing the 
Christian's relationship with everyone in her world, but only from a 
position of strength in the Spirit.

keely


From: "Heather Linn" <heatherlinn at hotmail.com>
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 14:38:13 -0700

First, I'd like to thank Keely for joining us for coffee. I'm glad to hear 
that she enjoyed herself
as did we. However, I'd like to point out that there seems to be an 
alternative she's missed or at least is unable to consider. Perhaps not all 
information out there in V2020 land and the blog world
concerning our church, our pastor, and our husbands is true. Perhaps we, 
women whom Keely views as "reasonable, intelligent and sincere in their 
faith", have a better grasp on our own situations and lives than those who 
don't know us. We aren't merely "willing to endure" our husbands and our 
theology  but rather enjoy (love) them both. Why would "intelligent" women 
love living with domineering patriarchal peacocks? Maybe we're not actually 
intelligent. Maybe we don't really love them. Or, the option you haven't 
been willing to consider, maybe they aren't domineering at all. Longshot, I 
know. But it is possible.

We don't "grieve, or are at least puzzled by, [your] Biblical feminism, 
outspokenness against Doug
Wilson, and [your] sharp theological disagreements with Christ Church." I've 
been curious how you've drawn your conclusions but unlike what has been 
asserted, we don't all mind when people
disagree. In fact, it can make community life a lot more interesting and 
fun.

Hope we still seem intelligent when you realize that we are on the same page 
as our husbands. We didn't mary stupid boys out of pity. We like them. 
Mine's even funny.

Cheers,

Heather Wilson


>keely emerinemix kjajmix1 at msn.com
>Tue Jun 13 13:25:27 PDT 2006
>Previous message: [Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash


>I appreciate Douglas Hunter's wise comments below, as well as Joe's point 
>that we consider Doug Wilson separately from those unfortunate enough to be 
>shepherded by him.

>I had coffee yesterday with five warm, intelligent, delightful women from 
>Christ Church.  They have every reason to presume that I am as bad and mean 
>as some have depicted me, and yet they've decided to do what mature women 
>do -- spend some time with me and find out for themselves.  And I am 
>grateful for the invitation extended, the warmth expressed, and the trust 
>presumed; I
hope I reciprocated with the same warmth and trust.  I have absolutely
>nothing against them and would welcome a friendship with any of them -- as 
>much as I grieve the bad theology they've embraced, or are willing to 
>endure,  and the hyper-patriarchal and hierarchical worldview it produces 
>that, I'm convinced, is as bad for men as it is for women.

>But I would imagine they grieve, or are at least puzzled by, my Biblical 
>feminism, outspokenness against Doug Wilson, and my sharp theological 
>disagreements with Christ Church.  That's fair.  In fact, that's great.  I 
>only hope that we can discuss it more.  I have no doubt at all that it 
>would be a loving, reasonable, intelligent and stimulating discussion, 
>because these women, like most of the folks at Christ Church, are 
>reasonable, intelligent and sincere in their faith.  For every unloving 
>Kirk man, many of whom we're all acquainted with here, I know there are 
>several more, men and women, who love Christ and are willing to love me in 
>His name.   I feel he same way.

>That doesn't negate my concern and anger about what I know of Wilson's 
>world and worldview.  In fact, it heightens it.  I love a good roll in the 
>theological hay of debate, but what's of real consequence is that real 
>people -- good people -- get hurt by bad theology and worse conduct.  
>Conscience compels me, then, to defend them and to defend the Gospel -- to 
>offer, with gentleness and respect, a reason for the hope that lies within 
>me; further paraphrasing 1 Peter 3:15, I might add that I hope to offer a 
>reason for the anger and concern that lies within me regarding the Kirk, 
>and I hope that I've done it with gentleness and respect to the sincere and 
>offered clear, truth-building rebuke when needed.

>And so, I'd like to publicly thank my friend Heather Wilson and her 
>sister-in-law, Meredith Wilson, for a delightful morning yesterday.   (And 
>it wasn't just the delicious coffee cake and great coffee, either!)

>keely


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