[Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash

[Heather Linn]

Thanks Keely.  While I think I understand what you're saying, I don't know 
that I've made myself clear. I'd much prefer interacting face to face. All 
the more reason for future coffee. Hope to do it again soon!

Cheers,

Heather

PS and I am glad you enjoyed my friends

PPS Bill, I hope to take another look at your questions in the morning


>From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1 at msn.com>
>To: heatherlinn at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash
>Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 16:31:45 -0700
>
>Unfortunately, I have enough experience with principles at Christ Church to 
>not have to rely on Vision 2020, blogs, and anecdote for my perspectives.  
>And I think I made clear that the women I enjoyed coffee with love their 
>husbands -- as they should -- and obviously have embraced a theology that 
>they have some affection for as well.
>
>Their husbands are likely very loveable men; their theology, which I'm a 
>bit more qualified to discuss, is one I disagree with on a number of 
>points, not the least of which is an overarching need to defend masculinity 
>and patriarchy at every turn.  It grieves me to see my friend Heather, 
>then, exhibiting this same overarching need to defend not only the theology 
>but the husbands as well, when I'm content to separate the beautiful and 
>appropriate affection between spouses from the ugly and Biblically 
>inappropriate demonstration of hard patriarchy, whether between spouses or 
>anyone else.  Good men can practice patriarchy -- and good men are 
>sometimes married to good women who join them in opposing it.  Nobody, 
>though, would suggest -- I didn't -- that these women ought to not love 
>their hKeelusbands.  Keep the menfolk and dump the patriarchy, I always 
>say.  Which probably explains why I'm not invited to many coffee gatherings 
>. . .
>
>Bill asks Heather to discuss "women submitting to men," and I of course 
>have volumes to say on the matter.  But I'll wait for her comments, and 
>jump in with mine later.  I'm sure that all of us pro-submission folks can 
>agree on one thing, though -- it's not gender-based, and is a mutual 
>requirement of reciprocity from husband to wife, back again, and 
>encompassing the Christian's relationship with everyone in her world, but 
>only from a position of strength in the Spirit.
>
>keely
>
>
>From: "Heather Linn" <heatherlinn at hotmail.com>
>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: [Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash
>Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 14:38:13 -0700
>
>First, I'd like to thank Keely for joining us for coffee. I'm glad to hear 
>that she enjoyed herself
>as did we. However, I'd like to point out that there seems to be an 
>alternative she's missed or at least is unable to consider. Perhaps not all 
>information out there in V2020 land and the blog world
>concerning our church, our pastor, and our husbands is true. Perhaps we, 
>women whom Keely views as "reasonable, intelligent and sincere in their 
>faith", have a better grasp on our own situations and lives than those who 
>don't know us. We aren't merely "willing to endure" our husbands and our 
>theology  but rather enjoy (love) them both. Why would "intelligent" women 
>love living with domineering patriarchal peacocks? Maybe we're not actually 
>intelligent. Maybe we don't really love them. Or, the option you haven't 
>been willing to consider, maybe they aren't domineering at all. Longshot, I 
>know. But it is possible.
>
>We don't "grieve, or are at least puzzled by, [your] Biblical feminism, 
>outspokenness against Doug
>Wilson, and [your] sharp theological disagreements with Christ Church." 
>I've been curious how you've drawn your conclusions but unlike what has 
>been asserted, we don't all mind when people
>disagree. In fact, it can make community life a lot more interesting and 
>fun.
>
>Hope we still seem intelligent when you realize that we are on the same 
>page as our husbands. We didn't mary stupid boys out of pity. We like them. 
>Mine's even funny.
>
>Cheers,
>
>Heather Wilson
>
>
>>keely emerinemix kjajmix1 at msn.com
>>Tue Jun 13 13:25:27 PDT 2006
>>Previous message: [Vision2020] Cult Fantasy News Flash
>
>
>>I appreciate Douglas Hunter's wise comments below, as well as Joe's point 
>>that we consider Doug Wilson separately from those unfortunate enough to 
>>be shepherded by him.
>
>>I had coffee yesterday with five warm, intelligent, delightful women from 
>>Christ Church.  They have every reason to presume that I am as bad and 
>>mean as some have depicted me, and yet they've decided to do what mature 
>>women do -- spend some time with me and find out for themselves.  And I am 
>>grateful for the invitation extended, the warmth expressed, and the trust 
>>presumed; I
>hope I reciprocated with the same warmth and trust.  I have absolutely
>>nothing against them and would welcome a friendship with any of them -- as 
>>much as I grieve the bad theology they've embraced, or are willing to 
>>endure,  and the hyper-patriarchal and hierarchical worldview it produces 
>>that, I'm convinced, is as bad for men as it is for women.
>
>>But I would imagine they grieve, or are at least puzzled by, my Biblical 
>>feminism, outspokenness against Doug Wilson, and my sharp theological 
>>disagreements with Christ Church.  That's fair.  In fact, that's great.  I 
>>only hope that we can discuss it more.  I have no doubt at all that it 
>>would be a loving, reasonable, intelligent and stimulating discussion, 
>>because these women, like most of the folks at Christ Church, are 
>>reasonable, intelligent and sincere in their faith.  For every unloving 
>>Kirk man, many of whom we're all acquainted with here, I know there are 
>>several more, men and women, who love Christ and are willing to love me in 
>>His name.   I feel he same way.
>
>>That doesn't negate my concern and anger about what I know of Wilson's 
>>world and worldview.  In fact, it heightens it.  I love a good roll in the 
>>theological hay of debate, but what's of real consequence is that real 
>>people -- good people -- get hurt by bad theology and worse conduct.  
>>Conscience compels me, then, to defend them and to defend the Gospel -- to 
>>offer, with gentleness and respect, a reason for the hope that lies within 
>>me; further paraphrasing 1 Peter 3:15, I might add that I hope to offer a 
>>reason for the anger and concern that lies within me regarding the Kirk, 
>>and I hope that I've done it with gentleness and respect to the sincere 
>>and offered clear, truth-building rebuke when needed.
>
>>And so, I'd like to publicly thank my friend Heather Wilson and her 
>>sister-in-law, Meredith Wilson, for a delightful morning yesterday.   (And 
>>it wasn't just the delicious coffee cake and great coffee, either!)
>
>>keely
>
>
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