[Vision2020] RE: Continuing "The Ramadi Hell Hole"

rvrcowboy rvrcowboy at clearwire.net
Fri Jul 7 05:07:50 PDT 2006


Only stating the obvious....

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
To: <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
Sent: Friday, July 07, 2006 12:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] RE: Continuing "The Ramadi Hell Hole"


> Wrong again, Buck-o.....
>
>
>
> J  :]
>
>
>
>
> >From: "rvrcowboy" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
> >To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>, "J Ford"
> ><privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] RE: Continuing "The Ramadi Hell Hole"
> >Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 23:48:36 -0700
> >
> >You are as hollow as your message.
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> >To: <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
> >Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 10:42 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] RE: Continuing "The Ramadi Hell Hole"
> >
> >
> > > Nah....that's your thing, as you continue to prove.
> > >
> > > J  :]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "rvrcowboy" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
> > > >To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>, "J Ford"
> > > ><privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] RE: Continuing "The Ramadi Hell Hole"
> > > >Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 21:13:45 -0700
> > > >
> > > >In other words, you had your head up your ass in your original post
and
> > > >have
> > > >no way to defend it.... right?
> > > >
> > > >Dick S.
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> > > >To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > > >Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 4:44 PM
> > > >Subject: [Vision2020] RE: Continuing "The Ramadi Hell Hole"
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Not worth going through....but thanks for writing.
> > > > >
> > > > > J  :]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "rvrcowboy" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
> > > > > >To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>, "J Ford"
> > > > > ><privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> > > > > >Subject: Continuing "The Ramadi Hell Hole"
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:55:48 -0700
> > > > > >
> > > > > >On July 5, J. Ford Wrote (in red):
> > > > > >
> > > > > >If the Iraqi people are amenable to allowing their life-time
enemy
> >to
> > > >come
> > > > > >in and take over, who are we to say they shouldn't be?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Do you really believe the majority of the Iraqi people want to be
> >under
> > > >the
> > > > > >control of Iran?  Do you really think it would be wise to turn
over
> > > >control
> > > > > >of Iraq to Iran, giving Iran the ability to pressure other OPEC
> > > >nations?
> > > > > >Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the UAE would be in great peril from
such
> >a
> > > > > >formidable foe.  Should these other OPEC nations come under the
> >control
> > > >of
> > > > > >Iran, either directly or indirectly, it would put a great deal of
> >the
> > > > > >world's oil supply at risk.  This would likely result in
collapse,
> >or
> > > >near
> > > > > >collapse, of all the world's money markets.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >OPEC controls 78% of the entire world's oil reserves.  Who, in
> >their
> > > >right
> > > > > >mind, would advocate allowing such a thing to happen?  Who would
> >just
> > > > > >assume the majority of the Iraqi people would be in favor of
living
> > > >under
> > > > > >the direct control of Iran?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  The ONLY reason we are in the area is that Bush's friends and
> >family
> > > >have
> > > > > >oil interests there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Do you have proof of this inane statement, or is it just one of
> >your
> > > > > >ridiculous, idiotic, groundless beliefs?  If you have proof of
> >this,
> > > >please
> > > > > >be so kind as to share it with the rest of us.  Also, please
inform
> >the
> > > > > >rest of us just how many barrels of oil the United States is
> >getting
> > > >from
> > > > > >Iraq at this time, or even in the past.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >We have NO business telling other countries how they should be
run.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Using this sort of logic, we have no business interfering in the
> >civil
> > > > > >strife of any of the African nations.  We should just stand back
> >and
> > > >allow
> > > > > >the senseless slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent
people
> >to
> > > > > >continue.  Many people believe we not only should make it our
> >business
> > > >to
> > > > > >intervene in such matters but in fact it is our OBLIGATION to do
> >so.
> > > >Did
> > > > > >you object to our intervention in Bosnia?  Are you certain you
> >really
> > > > > >believe what you are saying?  Or, perhaps you would just rather
let
> >the
> > > > > >great United Nations handle it all.  Using that strategy, by the
> >time
> > > > > >anyone intervenes in any of these problems there will be no one
> >left
> >to
> > > > > >save.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Unless they are a confirmed and bonafide threat to the rest of
the
> > > >world
> > > > > >(which
> > > > > >Iraq was NOT at the time we did this) then we have no right to
> >march
> >in
> > > > > >there and say "Do things my way or else."
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I suppose we could all argue for eternity about whether Iraq,
under
> > > >Saddam,
> > > > > >was a threat to the rest of the world.  I would doubt that Israel
> >would
> > > > > >agree with you, given the fact Saddam was financing sucicide
> >bombings
> > > >of
> > > > > >innocent Israelis.  The ethnic cleasnsing of the Kurds and the
> > > >political
> > > > > >killings of any who resisted, the imprisonment and torture of
young
> > > > > >children....... the list goes on and on...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >In spite of all this, let's assume, for the sake of argument you
> >are
> > > > > >correct.  Iraq was NOT a bonafide threat to the rest of the world
> >at
> > > >the
> > > > > >time of our invasion.  Assuming you are correct in this
assumption,
> > > >let's
> > > > > >consider if it is a threat to the rest of the world now.  If we
cut
> >and
> > > > > >run, Murtha style, from Iraq and allow the insurgency to force
the
> >rest
> > > >of
> > > > > >the population into a massive civil war, the threat to the rest
of
> >the
> > > > > >world should be obvious to even you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >If you believe George W. Bush is guilty of war crimes for
invading
> > > >Iraq,
> > > > > >that is an issue for the ballot box and legal action.  It does
not
> >mean
> > > >we
> > > > > >should just pull out, leaving thousands, perhaps millions, of
> >innocent
> > > > > >people to fend for themselves, knowing most of them would surely
> >die.
> > > > > >Priorities dictate that we should deal with the problems as they
> >exsist
> > > > > >right now, at this time.  We can not keep bitching and whining
> >about
> > > >the
> > > > > >past while allowing the innocent to die in the present.  Whether
we
> > > >were
> > > > > >right or wrong in our past actions, we do definately have an
> >obligation
> > > >to
> > > > > >millions of people not to just let them die now.  Cries of "Bush
> >Lied!,
> > > > > >Children Died! and other rhetoric are not going to help anything
in
> >the
> > > > > >present.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >We would fight it if another country did that to us - why should
we
> >be
> > > > > >allowed to do it to others? The only reason we should come into
> >another
> > > > > >area is if we are asked by the government of the country or if
> >there
> >is
> > > >a
> > > > > >real, that's REAL, threat to the world if we don't.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Of course we would fight another country invading ours.  So would
> >any
> > > >other
> > > > > >country, regardless of whether it was justified or not.  As I
> >stated
> > > >above,
> > > > > >whether or not Iraq, under Saddam, posed a real threat to the
rest
> >of
> > > >the
> > > > > >world may be debatable.  If you don't believe it was, take it up
at
> >the
> > > > > >ballot box.  Surely you are not naieve enough to believe for a
> >moment
> > > >that
> > > > > >any rogue government, killing its own citizens and exporting
> >terrorism
> > > > > >abroad would ever ask another government to step in and
straighten
> >the
> > > >mess
> > > > > >out.  Once again, we must concentrate on the immediate problem
> >right
> > > >now.
> > > > > >The time to argue the rights or wrongs of the past must wait
until
> >the
> > > > > >present is secure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Where in all that is written does it say "America, the Babysitter
> >of
> > > >the
> > > > > >World"?  I always thought it was "America the Beautiful".
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Most Americans still believe in "America the Beautiful".  They
are
> >not
> > > > > >naieve enough to start hating their own country just because they
> > > >disagree
> > > > > >with their President or the actions of their elected officials.
> >Most
> > > >of
> > > >us
> > > > > >still believe the United States is still the greatest nation in
the
> > > >world.
> > > > > >We laugh at those philosophy professors who continually hold up
> >some
> > > >third
> > > > > >world dictorate as the role model for Americans, over their own
> > > >country.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >As for America being the babysitter of the world, many believe
the
> >U.S.
> > > > > >should finance the world, or most of it, through the United
> >Nations,
> > > >while
> > > > > >giving up the right to have any more say in world affairs than
any
> > > >third
> > > > > >world nation operating under whatever rogue government they
happen
> >to
> > > >be
> > > > > >laboring under at any given moment.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Mayhap if we were to stop trying to beat everyone over the head
> >with
> > > >our
> > > > > >way of doing things, the "third world" countries would actually
get
> > > >down
> > > >to
> > > > > >the business of developing and we'd actually have new partners to
> >do
> > > >trade
> > > > > >with.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >And, perhaps, if we just stayed home and let the third world
> >countries
> > > > > >eliminate each other, kill off their own people through ethenic
> > > >cleansing,
> > > > > >and figure out how to support their own citizens, using their own
> > > >resources
> > > > > >and wealth, there would be no third world countries left to trade
> >with.
> > > > > >Hey!  Maybe you have hit on something here!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >As long as we continue to carry the big stick of "I'm right -
> >you're
> > > >not"
> > > > > >we are going to just continue in the circle of
war/hate/intolerance
> > > >that
> > > >we
> > > > > >seem stuck in.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I just love it when people of your persuasion speak of hate and
> > > > > >intolerance.  You hate the President, you hate anyone who does
not
> > > >agree
> > > > > >with you politically.  You even transfer your hate of others to
> >your
> > > >own
> > > > > >country.  You are totally intolerant of anyone who believes
> >differently
> > > > > >from you and get totally millitant toward them.  Your
spokespeople
> >are
> > > > > >misfits like Michael Moore or that poor pathetic Cindy Sheehan.
> >You
> > > >accuse
> > > > > >your own country for the problems of the entire rest of the
world.
> >You
> > > > > >carry so much guilt over being born an American you can't enjoy
the
> > > > > >privileges and rights you have because of it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Thoughts of a war-weary Vet that has seen too much violence in
too
> > > >short
> > > >a
> > > > > >period of time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >And you somehow believe the violence will just magically end if
we
> >just
> > > >cut
> > > > > >and run and leave the innocent at the mercy of the insurgents?
Do
> >you
> > > > > >really belive there will be less violence if that happens?  Are
you
> > > >really
> > > > > >that naieve?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >J  :]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Dick S.
> > > > >
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