[Vision2020] RE: Continuing "The Ramadi Hell Hole"

Thu Jul 6 23:48:36 PDT 2006

You are as hollow as your message.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
To: <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] RE: Continuing "The Ramadi Hell Hole"

> Nah....that's your thing, as you continue to prove.
>
> J  :]
>
>
>
>
> >From: "rvrcowboy" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
> >To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>, "J Ford"
> ><privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] RE: Continuing "The Ramadi Hell Hole"
> >Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 21:13:45 -0700
> >
> >In other words, you had your head up your ass in your original post and
> >have
> >no way to defend it.... right?
> >
> >Dick S.
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> >To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 4:44 PM
> >Subject: [Vision2020] RE: Continuing "The Ramadi Hell Hole"
> >
> >
> > > Not worth going through....but thanks for writing.
> > >
> > > J  :]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "rvrcowboy" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
> > > >To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>, "J Ford"
> > > ><privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> > > >Subject: Continuing "The Ramadi Hell Hole"
> > > >Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2006 13:55:48 -0700
> > > >
> > > >On July 5, J. Ford Wrote (in red):
> > > >
> > > >If the Iraqi people are amenable to allowing their life-time enemy to
> >come
> > > >in and take over, who are we to say they shouldn't be?
> > > >
> > > >Do you really believe the majority of the Iraqi people want to be
under
> >the
> > > >control of Iran?  Do you really think it would be wise to turn over
> >control
> > > >of Iraq to Iran, giving Iran the ability to pressure other OPEC
> >nations?
> > > >Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and the UAE would be in great peril from such a
> > > >formidable foe.  Should these other OPEC nations come under the
control
> >of
> > > >Iran, either directly or indirectly, it would put a great deal of the
> > > >world's oil supply at risk.  This would likely result in collapse, or
> >near
> > > >collapse, of all the world's money markets.
> > > >
> > > >OPEC controls 78% of the entire world's oil reserves.  Who, in their
> >right
> > > >mind, would advocate allowing such a thing to happen?  Who would just
> > > >assume the majority of the Iraqi people would be in favor of living
> >under
> > > >the direct control of Iran?
> > > >
> > > >  The ONLY reason we are in the area is that Bush's friends and
family
> >have
> > > >oil interests there.
> > > >
> > > >Do you have proof of this inane statement, or is it just one of your
> > > >ridiculous, idiotic, groundless beliefs?  If you have proof of this,
> >please
> > > >be so kind as to share it with the rest of us.  Also, please inform
the
> > > >rest of us just how many barrels of oil the United States is getting
> >from
> > > >Iraq at this time, or even in the past.
> > > >
> > > >We have NO business telling other countries how they should be run.
> > > >
> > > >Using this sort of logic, we have no business interfering in the
civil
> > > >strife of any of the African nations.  We should just stand back and
> >allow
> > > >the senseless slaughter of hundreds of thousands of innocent people
to
> > > >continue.  Many people believe we not only should make it our
business
> >to
> > > >intervene in such matters but in fact it is our OBLIGATION to do so.
> >Did
> > > >you object to our intervention in Bosnia?  Are you certain you really
> > > >believe what you are saying?  Or, perhaps you would just rather let
the
> > > >great United Nations handle it all.  Using that strategy, by the time
> > > >anyone intervenes in any of these problems there will be no one left
to
> > > >save.
> > > >
> > > >Unless they are a confirmed and bonafide threat to the rest of the
> >world
> > > >(which
> > > >Iraq was NOT at the time we did this) then we have no right to march
in
> > > >there and say "Do things my way or else."
> > > >
> > > >I suppose we could all argue for eternity about whether Iraq, under
> >Saddam,
> > > >was a threat to the rest of the world.  I would doubt that Israel
would
> > > >agree with you, given the fact Saddam was financing sucicide bombings
> >of
> > > >innocent Israelis.  The ethnic cleasnsing of the Kurds and the
> >political
> > > >killings of any who resisted, the imprisonment and torture of young
> > > >children....... the list goes on and on...
> > > >
> > > >In spite of all this, let's assume, for the sake of argument you are
> > > >correct.  Iraq was NOT a bonafide threat to the rest of the world at
> >the
> > > >time of our invasion.  Assuming you are correct in this assumption,
> >let's
> > > >consider if it is a threat to the rest of the world now.  If we cut
and
> > > >run, Murtha style, from Iraq and allow the insurgency to force the
rest
> >of
> > > >the population into a massive civil war, the threat to the rest of
the
> > > >world should be obvious to even you.
> > > >
> > > >If you believe George W. Bush is guilty of war crimes for invading
> >Iraq,
> > > >that is an issue for the ballot box and legal action.  It does not
mean
> >we
> > > >should just pull out, leaving thousands, perhaps millions, of
innocent
> > > >people to fend for themselves, knowing most of them would surely die.
> > > >Priorities dictate that we should deal with the problems as they
exsist
> > > >right now, at this time.  We can not keep bitching and whining about
> >the
> > > >past while allowing the innocent to die in the present.  Whether we
> >were
> > > >right or wrong in our past actions, we do definately have an
obligation
> >to
> > > >millions of people not to just let them die now.  Cries of "Bush
Lied!,
> > > >Children Died! and other rhetoric are not going to help anything in
the
> > > >present.
> > > >
> > > >We would fight it if another country did that to us - why should we
be
> > > >allowed to do it to others? The only reason we should come into
another
> > > >area is if we are asked by the government of the country or if there
is
> >a
> > > >real, that's REAL, threat to the world if we don't.
> > > >
> > > >Of course we would fight another country invading ours.  So would any
> >other
> > > >country, regardless of whether it was justified or not.  As I stated
> >above,
> > > >whether or not Iraq, under Saddam, posed a real threat to the rest of
> >the
> > > >world may be debatable.  If you don't believe it was, take it up at
the
> > > >ballot box.  Surely you are not naieve enough to believe for a moment
> >that
> > > >any rogue government, killing its own citizens and exporting
terrorism
> > > >abroad would ever ask another government to step in and straighten
the
> >mess
> > > >out.  Once again, we must concentrate on the immediate problem right
> >now.
> > > >The time to argue the rights or wrongs of the past must wait until
the
> > > >present is secure.
> > > >
> > > >Where in all that is written does it say "America, the Babysitter of
> >the
> > > >World"?  I always thought it was "America the Beautiful".
> > > >
> > > >Most Americans still believe in "America the Beautiful".  They are
not
> > > >naieve enough to start hating their own country just because they
> >disagree
> > > >with their President or the actions of their elected officials.  Most
> >of
> >us
> > > >still believe the United States is still the greatest nation in the
> >world.
> > > >We laugh at those philosophy professors who continually hold up some
> >third
> > > >world dictorate as the role model for Americans, over their own
> >country.
> > > >
> > > >As for America being the babysitter of the world, many believe the
U.S.
> > > >should finance the world, or most of it, through the United Nations,
> >while
> > > >giving up the right to have any more say in world affairs than any
> >third
> > > >world nation operating under whatever rogue government they happen to
> >be
> > > >laboring under at any given moment.
> > > >
> > > >Mayhap if we were to stop trying to beat everyone over the head with
> >our
> > > >way of doing things, the "third world" countries would actually get
> >down
> >to
> > > >the business of developing and we'd actually have new partners to do
> >trade
> > > >with.
> > > >
> > > >And, perhaps, if we just stayed home and let the third world
countries
> > > >eliminate each other, kill off their own people through ethenic
> >cleansing,
> > > >and figure out how to support their own citizens, using their own
> >resources
> > > >and wealth, there would be no third world countries left to trade
with.
> > > >Hey!  Maybe you have hit on something here!
> > > >
> > > >As long as we continue to carry the big stick of "I'm right - you're
> >not"
> > > >we are going to just continue in the circle of war/hate/intolerance
> >that
> >we
> > > >seem stuck in.
> > > >
> > > >I just love it when people of your persuasion speak of hate and
> > > >intolerance.  You hate the President, you hate anyone who does not
> >agree
> > > >with you politically.  You even transfer your hate of others to your
> >own
> > > >country.  You are totally intolerant of anyone who believes
differently
> > > >from you and get totally millitant toward them.  Your spokespeople
are
> > > >misfits like Michael Moore or that poor pathetic Cindy Sheehan.  You
> >accuse
> > > >your own country for the problems of the entire rest of the world.
You
> > > >carry so much guilt over being born an American you can't enjoy the
> > > >privileges and rights you have because of it.
> > > >
> > > >Thoughts of a war-weary Vet that has seen too much violence in too
> >short
> >a
> > > >period of time.
> > > >
> > > >And you somehow believe the violence will just magically end if we
just
> >cut
> > > >and run and leave the innocent at the mercy of the insurgents?  Do
you
> > > >really belive there will be less violence if that happens?  Are you
> >really
> > > >that naieve?
> > > >
> > > >J  :]
> > > >
> > > >Dick S.
> > >
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