Fw: [Vision2020] The Ramadi Hell Hole

[J Ford]

If the Iraqi people are amenable to allowing their life-time enemy to come 
in and take over, who are we to say they shouldn't be?  The ONLY reason we 
are in the area is that Bush's friends and family have oil interests there.  
We have NO business telling other countries how they should be run.  Unless 
they are a confirmed and bonafide threat to the rest of the world (which 
Iraq was NOT at the time we did this) then we have no right to march in 
there and say "Do things my way or else."  We would fight it if another 
country did that to us - why should we be allowed to do it to others? The 
only reason we should come into another area is if we are asked by the 
government of the country or if there is a real, that's REAL, threat to the 
world if we don't.   Where in all that is written does it say "America, the 
Babysitter of the World"?  I always thought it was "America the Beautiful".

Mayhap if we were to stop trying to beat everyone over the head with our way 
of doing things, the "third world" countries would actually get down to the 
business of developing and we'd actually have new partners to do trade with. 
  As long as we continue to carry the big stick of "I'm right - you're not" 
we are going to just continue in the circle of war/hate/intolerance that we 
seem stuck in.

Thoughts of a war-weary Vet that has seen too much violence in too short a 
period of time.

J  :]




>From: "rvrcowboy" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
>To: "Vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Fw: [Vision2020] The Ramadi Hell Hole
>Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 10:35:23 -0700
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "rvrcowboy" <rvrcowboy at clearwire.net>
>To: <nickgier at adelphia.net>
>Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 10:34 AM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] The Ramadi Hell Hole
>
>
> > Nick,
> >
> > Please enlighten us all to just what you think the results of a 
>coalition
> > pullout of Iraq would be.  Of course the presence of coalition troops
>draws
> > insurgents, just as horse shit draws flies and wars draw philosophy
> > professors.
> >
> > So what is your point?  What, at this point, would be your alternative?
> > Should we just abandon Iraq to civil war and allow Iran to take control 
>of
> > the entire region?  What then?
> >
> > Dick S.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <nickgier at adelphia.net>
> > To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 05, 2006 10:01 AM
> > Subject: [Vision2020] The Ramadi Hell Hole
> >
> >
> > > Greetings:
> > >
> > > A young Marine was recently interviewed on NPR, and after he said that
>U.
> > S. troops should stay until the mission is completed, he then admitted
>that
> > the insurgency continues because of the U. S. presence!
> > >
> > > July 5, 2006, New York Times
> > > Insurgency Hotbed
> > > In Ramadi, Fetid Quarters and Unrelenting Battles
> > > By DEXTER FILKINS
> > >
> > > RAMADI, Iraq, July 4 — The Government Center in the middle of this
> > devastated town resembles a fortress on the wild edge of some frontier: 
>it
> > is sandbagged, barricaded, full of men ready to shoot, surrounded by
>rubble
> > and enemies eager to get inside.
> > >
> > > The American marines here live eight to a room, rarely shower for lack
>of
> > running water and defecate in bags that are taken outside and burned.
> > >
> > > The threat of snipers is ever present; the marines start running the
> > moment they step outside. Daytime temperatures hover around 120 degrees;
> > most foot patrols have been canceled because of the risk of heatstroke.
> > >
> > > The food is tasteless, the windows boarded up. The place reeks of 
>urine
> > and too many bodies pressed too close together for too long.
> > >
> > > "Hey, can you get somebody to clean the toilet on the second floor?" 
>one
> > marine yelled to another from his office. "I can smell it down here."
> > >
> > > And the casualties are heavy. Asked about the wounded under his 
>command,
> > Capt. Andrew Del Gaudio, 30, of the Bronx, rattled off a few.
> > >
> > > "Let's see, Lance Corporal Tussey, shot in the thigh.
> > >
> > > "Lance Corporal Zimmerman, shot in the leg.
> > >
> > > "Lance Corporal Sardinas, shrapnel, hit in the face.
> > >
> > > "Lance Corporal Wilson, shrapnel in the throat."
> > >
> > > "That's all I can think of right now," the captain said.
> > >
> > > So it goes in Ramadi, the epicenter of the Iraqi insurgency and the
>focus
> > of a grinding struggle between the American forces and the guerrillas.
> > >
> > > In three years here the Marine Corps and the Army have tried nearly
> > everything to bring this provincial capital of 400,000 under control.
> > Nothing has worked.
> > >
> > > Now American commanders are trying something new.
> > >
> > > Instead of continuing to fight for the downtown, or rebuild it, they 
>are
> > going to get rid of it, or at least a very large part of it.
> > >
> > > They say they are planning to bulldoze about three blocks in the 
>middle
>of
> > the city, part of which has been reduced to ruins by the fighting, and
> > convert them into a Green Zone, a version of the fortified and largely
> > stable area that houses the Iraqi and American leadership in Baghdad.
> > >
> > > The idea is to break the bloody stalemate in the city by ending the
> > struggle over the battle-scarred provincial headquarters that the
>insurgents
> > assault nearly every day. The Government Center will remain, but the 
>empty
> > space around it will deny the guerrillas cover to attack. "We'll turn it
> > into a park," said Col. Sean MacFarland.
> > >
> > > Ramadi, a largely Sunni Arab city, is regarded by American commanders 
>as
> > the key to securing Anbar Province, now the single deadliest place for
> > American soldiers in Iraq. Many neighborhoods here are only nominally
> > controlled by the Americans, offering sanctuaries for guerrillas.
> > >
> > > While the focus in Baghdad and other large Iraqi cities may be
> > reconciliation or the political process, here it is still war. Sometimes
>the
> > Government Center is assaulted by as many as 100 insurgents at a time.
> > >
> > > Last week a midnight gun battle between a group of insurgents and
>American
> > marines lasted two hours and ended only when the Americans dropped a
> > laser-guided bomb on an already half-destroyed building downtown. Six
> > marines were wounded; it was unclear what happened to the insurgents.
> > >
> > > "We go out and kill these people," said Captain Del Gaudio, the
>commander
> > here. "I define success as continuing to kill the enemy to allow the
> > government to work and for the Iraqi Army to take over."
> > >
> > > Government Mostly in Name
> > >
> > > That day seems a long way off. The Iraqi government exists here in
>little
> > more than name. Last week about $7 million disappeared from the Rafidain
> > Bank — most of the bank's deposits — right under the nose of an 
>American
> > observation post next door. An Iraqi police officer was shot in the face
>and
> > dumped in the road, his American ID card stuck between his fingers.
> > >
> > > The governor of the province, Mamoun Sami Rashid al-Alwani, still goes
>to
> > work here under an American military escort. But many of the province's
> > senior officials deserted him after the kidnapping and beheading of his
> > secretary in May.
> > >
> > > The previous governor was assassinated, as was the chairman of the
> > provincial council, Khidir Abdel Jabar Abbas, in April. At a meeting of
>the
> > provincial cabinet last week, only six of 36 senior officials showed up.
> > >
> > > "The terrorists want to keep Anbar people out of the government," said
> > Taha Hameed Mokhlef, the director general for highways, who went into
>hiding
> > last month when his face appeared on an American-backed television 
>station
> > here showing him in his job. He has since re-emerged. "My friends told 
>me
> > that the terrorists were planning to kill me, so I went to Jordan for a
> > while," he said.
> > >
> > > The Iraqi police patrol the streets in only a handful of 
>neighborhoods,
> > the ones closest to the American base. In the slow-motion offensive that
>has
> > been unfolding, in which the Americans have been gradually clearing
> > individual neighborhoods, nearly all of the fighting has been done by
> > American marines and soldiers, not the Iraqi Army.
> > >
> > > The 800-member Third Battalion, Eighth Marine Regiment, which until
> > recently was responsible for holding most of the city on its own, has 
>lost
> > 11 marines since arriving in March. Commanders declined to disclose the
> > number of wounded. Over all in Iraq the number of American wounded in
>action
> > is roughly seven times the number killed.
> > >
> > > Be Polite, and Ready to Kill
> > >
> > > One of the "habits of mind" drilled into the marines from posters hung
>up
> > inside: "Be polite, be professional and have a plan to kill everyone you
> > meet."
> > >
> > > The humor runs dark, too. On a sheet of paper hung up in the 
>Government
> > Center, marines wrote down suggestions for their company's T-shirt once
>they
> > go home. Most are unprintable, but here is one that got a lot of laughs:
> > "Kilo Company: Killed more people than cancer."
> > >
> > > The marines at the Government Center have held on, but the fighting 
>has
> > transformed the area into an ocean of ruin. The sentries posted on the
> > rooftops have blasted the larger buildings nearby so many times that 
>they
> > have given them nicknames: Battleship Gray, Swiss Cheese. The buildings
>are
> > among those that will be bulldozed under the Green Zone plan.
> > >
> > > "Aesthetically it will be an improvement," Lt. Col. Stephen Neary 
>said.
> > >
> > > Holding the place has cost blood. A roadside bomb killed three marines
>and
> > a sailor on patrol here in March. Another marine was shot through the
> > forehead by a sniper, just beneath the line of his helmet.
> > >
> > > The number of Iraqi casualties — insurgents or civilians — is 
>unknown
>and
> > impossible to determine in the chaotic conditions.
> > >
> > > As in the rest of Iraq, the insurgents' most lethal weapon is the
>homemade
> > bomb. The bombs virtually cover Ramadi: an American military map on
>display
> > here showed about 50 places where roadside bombs had recently been
> > discovered. Two weeks ago a marine sniper was killed by a homemade bomb
>when
> > he ran from a house where he had been spotted.
> > >
> > > Bombs Nearly Everywhere
> > >
> > > Sometimes it feels as if the bombs are everywhere. On a single 
>hourlong
> > patrol one night last week, a group of marines spotted two likely bombs
> > planted in an area that is regularly inspected, meaning that they had 
>been
> > laid within the previous few days.
> > >
> > > One was hidden under a pile of trash. Another was thought to be under 
>a
> > pair of gasoline cans that had been set in the middle of the road. The
> > marines spied them with their night vision glasses; without them, it is
> > likely that the Humvees would have run over them.
> > >
> > > Indeed, the marines often manage to spot bombs — covered in trash, 
>made
>of
> > metal and wires — in streets that are themselves covered in trash, 
>metal
>and
> > wires.
> > >
> > > "Right there, look at that," Gunnery Sgt. John Scroggins said from the
> > passenger seat of his Humvee, pointing to the street.
> > >
> > > And there it was: a thin metal tube, with a long green wire protruding
>and
> > sticking into the pavement, almost certainly a bomb. The pipes typically
> > contain what is called a pressure trigger, which closes an electrical
> > circuit — and detonates a bomb — when crushed by a vehicle. The 
>Humvee was
> > about two feet away when the marines spotted it.
> > >
> > > Some of the marines have been hit by so many bombs that they almost
>shrug
> > when they go off. On Sunday a Humvee carrying four marines on a patrol
> > dropped off a reporter and photographer for The New York Times at the
> > Government Center. The Humvee rumbled 100 yards down the road and struck 
>a
> > bomb. No one was killed, and the marines returned to base as if they had
> > encountered nothing more serious than a fender bender.
> > >
> > > "It's my fifth," said Cpl. Jonathan Nelson, 21, of Brooklyn. "It's the
> > best feeling in the world to get hit by one and live — like bungee
>jumping."
> > >
> > > In the end, whether the Americans can succeed in bringing security to
> > Ramadi will depend on how much support they can draw from the Iraqis.
> > >
> > > Many Iraqi civilians have spent the last three years caught between 
>the
> > two warring camps, too afraid to throw their lot with one group or the
> > other. It is, by nearly all accounts, a miserable situation, with
>individual
> > Iraqis often simultaneously under threat by insurgents and under 
>suspicion
> > by the Americans.
> > >
> > > Many complain of bad treatment and unjustified killings by both sides.
> > That civilians have been killed here is beyond dispute, but the
> > circumstances are nearly impossible to verify.
> > >
> > > Qais Mohammed, 46, owned a dress shop across the street from the
> > Government Center but moved away when the Americans set up and the
>fighting
> > began. Then a mortar shell hit his home and he moved with his wife and 
>10
> > children to a refugee camp outside the city.
> > >
> > > Fed up with conditions at the camp, Mr. Mohammed and his family moved
>back
> > to the city not long ago, into a seedy little place much reduced from 
>the
> > comfort he once knew.
> > >
> > > "We do not want gold, or dresses or the food of kings," Mr. Mohammed
>said.
> > "We want to live without fear for our lives and our kids. These days
>neither
> > your tribe nor the police can protect you. It is the jungle law."
> > >
> > > The marines say their highest priority is winning over people like Mr.
> > Mohammed, even at the cost of letting insurgents escape. Indeed, the
>marines
> > seem far less aggressive than they were during their earlier tours here,
> > when the priority was killing insurgents. Now they seem much more
>interested
> > in capturing the loyalty of the residents.
> > >
> > > Civilians in the Middle
> > >
> > > Iraqi civilians, by and large, did not seem to fear the American 
>marines
> > as they passed on patrol. When the Americans rumbled past, the Iraqis
>often
> > continued whatever they were doing: talking, sitting, standing, eating.
>The
> > children held up their hands for soccer balls, and occasionally a marine
> > would toss one to a child.
> > >
> > > "Football! Football!" the children cried.
> > >
> > > "The people are in the middle, between us and the insurgents," Lance
>Cpl.
> > Sean Patton said as he wheeled his Humvee through a neighborhood 
>downtown.
> > (He says he is a great-great-grandnephew of Gen. George S. Patton.)
>"Whoever
> > is friendly, they will help."
> > >
> > > A few moments later, Corporal Patton and his men were reminded of just
>how
> > bewildering this city could be. As he turned slowly down a street, all 
>the
> > Iraqis milling about, maybe 30 people in all, suddenly disappeared.
> > >
> > > "They're going to hit us," the corporal said, convinced that the crowd
>had
> > been tipped off to the presence of a bomb or an impending attack.
> > >
> > > When the Americans left the street, the Iraqis returned.
> > >
> > > Corporal Patton turned onto the street again, and the people vanished 
>a
> > second time.
> > >
> > > "We're going to get hit," he said, bracing himself.
> > >
> > > The attack never came.
> > >
> > >
> > > =====================================================
> > >  List services made available by First Step Internet,
> > >  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > >                http://www.fsr.net
> > >           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
> > > ====================================================
> > >
> >
>
>=====================================================
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                http://www.fsr.net
>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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