[Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless" Ordinance

Mon Jul 3 11:30:01 PDT 2006

Dearest Joe, At the not inconsiderable risk of having my proboscis 
threatened with violence again, I really must ask if you really even know 
what slander is? It appears to be your word of the day and you repeatedly 
misuse it. I don't see anywhere in my post where I said Mr. Stout was 
anti-Kirk. I said he enjoyed support from those that were, a demonstrable 
fact. There is a difference. Additionally are you seriously suggesting that 
a person can not have an opinion about a public figure unless you have met 
them? I haven't met you and I can tell ya right now I definitely have formed 
an opinion. A further question for you is what makes you think that I seek 
to gain any kind of "political advantage?" I am not running for any office, 
unlike yourself.  Regarding your call for a public apology, might I suggest 
that you take a deep breath and hold it while anticipating it's arrival?

Your extremely reluctant future constituent,
G. Crabtree

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joe Campbell" <joekc at adelphia.net>
To: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
Cc: <vision2020 at moscow.com>; "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless" 
Ordinance

> It is amazing to me, Crabtree, how you will slander anyone just to gain 
> some political advantage! It is especially amazing since I haven't quite 
> figured out what the political advantage of backing the Kirk at any cost 
> is.
>
> Do you even know Bob Stout? Have you ever even met him? Stout is not in 
> any way anti-Kirk. He has never made a negative comment about the Kirk, 
> either publically or privately, to my knowledge.
>
> To suggest that Stout has the same beliefs as many of his supporters is a 
> form of guilt by association. To make slanderous comments about an elected 
> official via guilt by association is wrong and you owe Stout a public 
> apology.
>
> (Sorry for going over the limit. This is four for me today! See you 
> tomorrow!)
>
> --
> Joe Campbell
>
> ---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote:
>
> =============
> No darling, I was making a statement, not a charge. There is no question
> that councilmen Stout and Ament enjoyed broad support from the anti CC
> crowd, as well as groups that identify themselves as progressive.  I do 
> not
> believe that there is anything unethical, immoral, illegal or particularly
> remarkable about this, I merely point it out as a fact. It has been called
> to my attention on this forum repeatedly that I should not be surprised 
> that
> they will dance with (and for) them that brung 'em.
>
> Please remember that when you hear the popping and banging over the next
> couple days that it's the independence day celebration, not Doug Wilson
> taking over the town.
>
> Stay cool,
> G. Crabtree
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
> To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 12:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless"
> Ordinance
>
>
>> "....."progressive" buddies along with their hand picked (and paid for)
>> city council people"?
>>
>> Care to explain this statement?  I mean, you sound like you're making a
>> charge - mayhap you can back it up or are you going to let it go as is?
>>
>> J  :]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>>>To: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless"
>>>Ordinance
>>>Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 15:54:33 -0700
>>>
>>>Mrs. Lund, why is that when the CC critics and their various 
>>>"progressive"
>>>buddies along with their hand picked (and paid for) city council people
>>>attempt to impose their will on a collective Moscow, in the form of 
>>>NSA/CC
>>>harassment, unionization of city employees or anti-growth measures, it's
>>>democracy at work but when A decency ordinance is passed, with the 
>>>support
>>>of several local congregations and five non CC council members, an
>>>ordinance that is similar to many others across the nation, it's
>>>"ridiculous and reactionary," and a case of ramming through bad law and
>>>using undo pressure as well as contributory to making Moscow a laughing
>>>stock? And all because of Doug Wilson? I seem to sense a serious double
>>>standard at work here. Again.
>>>
>>>I also really don't recall there being a feeling of desperation in the 
>>>air
>>>when Ord. 2002-13 was enacted and am certain that a lynch mob mentality
>>>was not at work. To refer to goings on surrounding the enactment of the
>>>topless ordinance as a sacrificial crisis is to grossly overstate matters
>>>in an attempt to make a tenuous, to the point of nonexistent argument. If
>>>the majority of Moscow truly feels that they were "steamrolled," it 
>>>should
>>>be fairly easy to have this odious piece of law making repealed. Perhaps
>>>you'll have citizen/councilman Ament bring this urgent matter up at the
>>>next council meeting? Maybe Mr. Stout would like to champion this
>>>important cause for you? Remember what happens if good people do nothing.
>>>
>>>gc
>>>
>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
>>>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 11:42 AM
>>>Subject: [Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless" 
>>>Ordinance
>>>
>>>
>>>>Visionaries:
>>>>
>>>>I got an email today from a friend who worked with the group which tried
>>>>to
>>>>overturn Moscow's ridiculous and reactionary topless ordinance that was
>>>>rammed through due to pressure from the Christ Church "PAC."
>>>>
>>>>My friend sent me a link to an entry on Doug Wilson's blog and thought 
>>>>it
>>>>did an excellent job of explaining the Christ Church's role in that mess
>>>>that steamrolled over the beliefs of the majority of our community:
>>>>
>>>>"Those who stir up strife in towns, churches, cities, or nations are
>>>>trying
>>>>to create a situation when everyone will get to a point of desperation,
>>>>and
>>>>then try to resolve the problem with some kind of dramatic action. That
>>>>dramatic action is sudden, forceful, fascinating, and its effects are
>>>>very
>>>>potent . . . and temporary.
>>>>
>>>>This is why mobs function the way they do. This is how lynching occurs. 
>>>>.
>>>>.But it is a pseudo-salvation. It is a lie. When this kind of person
>>>>succeeds in stirring up a sacrificial crisis, he gets the mob, or the
>>>>crowd,
>>>>or the presbytery, or the congregation, as the case may be, whipped up
>>>>into
>>>>a sacrificial crisis and ready for a dramatic solution to all the
>>>>trouble. "
>>>>http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=1&BlogID=2510
>>>>
>>>>Indeed.
>>>>
>>>>A law was passed that AFAIK to this day has *never* been enforced.
>>>>However,
>>>>it did manage to make Moscow, Idaho a national laughing stock  :-(
>>>>
>>>>I have to agree with my friend . . . and I also have to wonder why 
>>>>Wilson
>>>>doesn't see himself in his own words  :-(
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Saundra Lund
>>>>Moscow, ID
>>>>
>>>>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to 
>>>>do
>>>>nothing.
>>>>- Edmund Burke
>>>>
>>>>***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra 
>>>>Lund.
>>>>Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 
>>>>forum
>>>>without the express written permission of the author.*****
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>=====================================================
>>>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
>>>communities of the Palouse since 1994.                 http://www.fsr.net
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>>
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