[Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless" Ordinance

Mon Jul 3 09:42:54 PDT 2006

It is amazing to me, Crabtree, how you will slander anyone just to gain some political advantage! It is especially amazing since I haven't quite figured out what the political advantage of backing the Kirk at any cost is.

Do you even know Bob Stout? Have you ever even met him? Stout is not in any way anti-Kirk. He has never made a negative comment about the Kirk, either publically or privately, to my knowledge.

To suggest that Stout has the same beliefs as many of his supporters is a form of guilt by association. To make slanderous comments about an elected official via guilt by association is wrong and you owe Stout a public apology.

(Sorry for going over the limit. This is four for me today! See you tomorrow!)

--
Joe Campbell

---- "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net> wrote: 

=============
No darling, I was making a statement, not a charge. There is no question 
that councilmen Stout and Ament enjoyed broad support from the anti CC 
crowd, as well as groups that identify themselves as progressive.  I do not 
believe that there is anything unethical, immoral, illegal or particularly 
remarkable about this, I merely point it out as a fact. It has been called 
to my attention on this forum repeatedly that I should not be surprised that 
they will dance with (and for) them that brung 'em.

Please remember that when you hear the popping and banging over the next 
couple days that it's the independence day celebration, not Doug Wilson 
taking over the town.

Stay cool,
G. Crabtree
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "J Ford" <privatejf32 at hotmail.com>
To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 12:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless" 
Ordinance

> "....."progressive" buddies along with their hand picked (and paid for) 
> city council people"?
>
> Care to explain this statement?  I mean, you sound like you're making a 
> charge - mayhap you can back it up or are you going to let it go as is?
>
> J  :]
>
>
>
>
>>From: "g. crabtree" <jampot at adelphia.net>
>>To: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless" 
>>Ordinance
>>Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 15:54:33 -0700
>>
>>Mrs. Lund, why is that when the CC critics and their various "progressive" 
>>buddies along with their hand picked (and paid for) city council people 
>>attempt to impose their will on a collective Moscow, in the form of NSA/CC 
>>harassment, unionization of city employees or anti-growth measures, it's 
>>democracy at work but when A decency ordinance is passed, with the support 
>>of several local congregations and five non CC council members, an 
>>ordinance that is similar to many others across the nation, it's 
>>"ridiculous and reactionary," and a case of ramming through bad law and 
>>using undo pressure as well as contributory to making Moscow a laughing 
>>stock? And all because of Doug Wilson? I seem to sense a serious double 
>>standard at work here. Again.
>>
>>I also really don't recall there being a feeling of desperation in the air 
>>when Ord. 2002-13 was enacted and am certain that a lynch mob mentality 
>>was not at work. To refer to goings on surrounding the enactment of the 
>>topless ordinance as a sacrificial crisis is to grossly overstate matters 
>>in an attempt to make a tenuous, to the point of nonexistent argument. If 
>>the majority of Moscow truly feels that they were "steamrolled," it should 
>>be fairly easy to have this odious piece of law making repealed. Perhaps 
>>you'll have citizen/councilman Ament bring this urgent matter up at the 
>>next council meeting? Maybe Mr. Stout would like to champion this 
>>important cause for you? Remember what happens if good people do nothing.
>>
>>gc
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Saundra Lund" <sslund at adelphia.net>
>>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 11:42 AM
>>Subject: [Vision2020] Moscow Ordinance 2002-13 aka The "Topless" Ordinance
>>
>>
>>>Visionaries:
>>>
>>>I got an email today from a friend who worked with the group which tried 
>>>to
>>>overturn Moscow's ridiculous and reactionary topless ordinance that was
>>>rammed through due to pressure from the Christ Church "PAC."
>>>
>>>My friend sent me a link to an entry on Doug Wilson's blog and thought it
>>>did an excellent job of explaining the Christ Church's role in that mess
>>>that steamrolled over the beliefs of the majority of our community:
>>>
>>>"Those who stir up strife in towns, churches, cities, or nations are 
>>>trying
>>>to create a situation when everyone will get to a point of desperation, 
>>>and
>>>then try to resolve the problem with some kind of dramatic action. That
>>>dramatic action is sudden, forceful, fascinating, and its effects are 
>>>very
>>>potent . . . and temporary.
>>>
>>>This is why mobs function the way they do. This is how lynching occurs. .
>>>.But it is a pseudo-salvation. It is a lie. When this kind of person
>>>succeeds in stirring up a sacrificial crisis, he gets the mob, or the 
>>>crowd,
>>>or the presbytery, or the congregation, as the case may be, whipped up 
>>>into
>>>a sacrificial crisis and ready for a dramatic solution to all the 
>>>trouble. "
>>>http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=1&BlogID=2510
>>>
>>>Indeed.
>>>
>>>A law was passed that AFAIK to this day has *never* been enforced. 
>>>However,
>>>it did manage to make Moscow, Idaho a national laughing stock  :-(
>>>
>>>I have to agree with my friend . . . and I also have to wonder why Wilson
>>>doesn't see himself in his own words  :-(
>>>
>>>
>>>Saundra Lund
>>>Moscow, ID
>>>
>>>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do
>>>nothing.
>>>- Edmund Burke
>>>
>>>***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006, Saundra Lund.
>>>Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside the Vision 2020 forum
>>>without the express written permission of the author.*****
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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