[Vision2020] PTSD

Mon Jan 30 11:24:19 PST 2006

Sorry if you think I insulted you Mr. Nisbet. I was just saying it like it 
is. You have a bad habit of reading into other peoples posts whatever suits 
your nasty little enterprise.

James Reynolds

>From: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
>To: chapandmaize at hotmail.com
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] PTSD
>Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:09:04 -0800
>
>James
>
>Anybody reading your reposted comments can pretty easily see what was being 
>suggested by you with regards to infantry training depersonalizing the 
>trainee and making them lose their humanity.  Your further comments on PTSD 
>suggested that frontline troops would return all scarred by the syndrome.
>
>Its may be easy for you to feel or suggest that its a support for Iraqi War 
>or not kind of thing, but what you fail to mention is that Anti Iraq war 
>Vets also called you on your statement and you then posted insulting 
>comments to them as well.
>
>Phil Nisbet
>
>
>>From: "James Reynolds" <chapandmaize at hotmail.com>
>>To: pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
>>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] PTSD
>>Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:54:57 -0800
>>
>>I have come to understand Mr. Nisbet that you don't care what is right or 
>>wrong you just don't want to face facts that are not acceptable to your 
>>scheme of things. Your inability to face information squarely and honestly 
>>leads you to discredit whoever for whatever with misleading statements and 
>>falsehoods. I don't mind if you are misinformed but don't be dragging me 
>>down your slide of ignorance.
>>
>>
>>You wrote this today.
>>
>>"The poster, James Reynolds, suggested that all persons who went
>>through infantry training were going to end up with no feeling for
>>their fellow man and that all persons who underwent combat
>>situations would succumb to PTSD and be permanently disabled"
>>
>>Below is the complete posting from me to which you refer.
>>
>>(Submitted by J.R.)
>>" The article Mr. Hansen posted this morning concerning Post Traumatic 
>>Stress
>>Disorder should open our eyes to the full impact of what military actions
>>entail. A front line soldier coming back to try and fit into society gets
>>the headlines but he is only a small part of the entire tragedy. There are
>>no clear cut fixes for PTSD because there has been a fundamental shift in
>>how that soldier fits into society. He has undergone training and 
>>situations
>>that have reduced the fundamental sacred nature of life to its biological
>>simplicity and the soldier's own life as worthless.
>>
>>If a child goes through infantry training it is taught that it is no 
>>better
>>than a bug and that its life is forfeit to the country. Our own boys and
>>girls become expendable objects for our Commander-in-Chief to do with as 
>>he
>>pleases. This training and the final mindset is mandatory for a good army.
>>
>>If we add the fact that the current war (as Vietnam) has no clear
>>justification, no clear enemy, and no clear victories what we end up
>>bringing home are many, many, many messed up young people.
>>
>>We have to put ourselves in the boots of our young soldiers. We need to
>>think about ourselves being trained to understand our lives are nothing; 
>>put
>>ourselves into a foreign land surrounded by our potential killer every
>>minute. We have to make the greatest effort to give these young people 
>>their
>>humanity back.
>>
>>A non-justified war means nothing more than a sentence of death or the 
>>loss
>>of humanity to our children without any benefit to the Nation. How can
>>anyone support such a war? What is our nation becoming? We allow our
>>children to be sent to death or destruction on the words of liars and by 
>>the
>>deceptions of war profiteers and then allow these same maggots to take our
>>money from the treasury to line their pockets while declining to allow the
>>best care for our young soldiers when they come back to us.
>>(END of JR post)
>>
>>Where is it that I suggested what you claim?
>>
>>You should try thinking before you spout off. Or at least attempt 
>>rationality when you do post.
>>
>>Anyone supporting the current mess in Iraq is an idiot Mr Nisbet, is that 
>>what is really bothering you?
>>
>>James Reynolds
>>Moscow
>>
>>
>>>Richard
>>>
>>>The question was not if vets coming back from Iraq would suffer from 
>>>PTSD, but the overall effect that it would have on vets in general.  The 
>>>poster, James Reynolds, suggested that all persons who went through 
>>>infantry training were going to end up with no feeling for their fellow 
>>>man and that all persons who underwent combat situations would succumb to 
>>>PTSD and be permanently disabled.
>>>
>>>The various vets on this list noted that PTSD is a serious problem but 
>>>that the chronic form of PTSD that requires long term treatment only 
>>>effects 30% of PTSD patients and the malady is not something that causes 
>>>anybody to be a dangerous person or a person likely to become a street 
>>>bum, which is the kind of thing that the ill informed seem to think.
>>>
>>>Your figure of 17% is extremely high.  The studies that I have seen put 
>>>the rate at between 8-10% and that for frontline combat troops.  Since 4% 
>>>is the average in the US population and what is also typical of 
>>>non-combat related PTSD's, the figure for Viet Nam Vets and preliminary 
>>>figures for Iraq War vets are pretty near in sync.  There should be 
>>>around 6000-7000 troops who will suffer chronic PTSD that will take 
>>>treatment for many years to come.  The rest of the PTSD sufferers will 
>>>recover within 6 months, some with treatment, but the bulk without.
>>>
>>>The 7000 cases of chronic PTSD will require care to the tune of $40,000 a 
>>>year per man and the vets on the list noted that they are deserving of 
>>>disability and treatment costs just as those who are physically wounded.  
>>>There are no Purple Hearts for the guys who end up with PTSD, but they 
>>>are as wounded by action as any who took a round.  Regardless of what any 
>>>person feels about Iraq or action in the Middle East, they need to 
>>>support the long term care for those who served.
>>>
>>>And critically, people need to treat all the troops returning from action 
>>>with dignity.  The Viet Nam experience need not be repeated and these 
>>>young troops can move more readily back into life if they are given 
>>>respect.  That is especially true of the guys with PTSD.
>>>
>>>Phil Nisbet
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>From: "Richard Schmidt" <44schmidt at earthlink.net>
>>>>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>Subject: [Vision2020] PTSD
>>>>Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:48:51 -0500
>>>>
>>>>Within the past couple weeks some misinformed person made the statement 
>>>>that PTSD was not a problem with the servicemen serving in Afghanistan 
>>>>and Iraq. Please read the article at  
>>>>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/01/29/MNGMHGVCEV1.DTL 
>>>>     which ends with:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Veterans and stress
>>>>Post-traumatic stress disorder is an ailment resulting from exposure to 
>>>>an experience involving direct or indirect threat of serious injury or 
>>>>death. Symptoms include recurrent thoughts of a traumatic event, reduced 
>>>>involvement in work or outside interests, hyper alertness, anxiety and 
>>>>irritability.
>>>>
>>>>About 317,000 veterans diagnosed with the disorder were treated at 
>>>>Department of Veterans Affairs medical centers and clinics in fiscal 
>>>>year 2005. Nearly 19,000 veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan 
>>>>were seen for the disorder in veterans' medical centers and Vet Centers 
>>>>from fiscal year 2002 to 2005.
>>>>
>>>>A recent study of soldiers and Marines who had served in Iraq and 
>>>>Afghanistan found that about 17 percent met criteria for post-traumatic 
>>>>stress disorder, depression, or generalized anxiety disorder. Of those 
>>>>whose responses were positive for a mental disorder, 40 percent or fewer 
>>>>actually received help while on active duty.
>>>>
>>>>For more information, contact your local veterans facility, call (877) 
>>>>222-VETS.
>>>
>>
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