[Vision2020] PTSD

Mon Jan 30 11:52:13 PST 2006

James

Lets see how about this one that was sent to me;

"Phil,

You are right. I like your romanticized, John Wayne-like war much better 
than reality. Thanks for steering me straight.

James Reynolds"

That was an insult James, pure and simple.  And the other Vet you insulted 
here was Don Husky with similar John Wayne comments.

Nowhere in either of our postings did we suggest that war was fun or cool or 
a great thing.  We simply pointed out to you that your idea of what happens 
to people who are infantry trained and who then get shot at is warped by 
lack of experiance of the effects of combat on human beings.

As for your parting shot of "nasty enterprise", what exactly does that mean? 
  What masty enterprize do you think I am involved in?

Phil Nisbet

>From: "James Reynolds" <chapandmaize at hotmail.com>
>To: pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] PTSD
>Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:24:19 -0800
>
>Sorry if you think I insulted you Mr. Nisbet. I was just saying it like it 
>is. You have a bad habit of reading into other peoples posts whatever suits 
>your nasty little enterprise.
>
>James Reynolds
>
>
>>From: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
>>To: chapandmaize at hotmail.com
>>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] PTSD
>>Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 11:09:04 -0800
>>
>>James
>>
>>Anybody reading your reposted comments can pretty easily see what was 
>>being suggested by you with regards to infantry training depersonalizing 
>>the trainee and making them lose their humanity.  Your further comments on 
>>PTSD suggested that frontline troops would return all scarred by the 
>>syndrome.
>>
>>Its may be easy for you to feel or suggest that its a support for Iraqi 
>>War or not kind of thing, but what you fail to mention is that Anti Iraq 
>>war Vets also called you on your statement and you then posted insulting 
>>comments to them as well.
>>
>>Phil Nisbet
>>
>>
>>>From: "James Reynolds" <chapandmaize at hotmail.com>
>>>To: pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com, vision2020 at moscow.com
>>>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] PTSD
>>>Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 10:54:57 -0800
>>>
>>>I have come to understand Mr. Nisbet that you don't care what is right or 
>>>wrong you just don't want to face facts that are not acceptable to your 
>>>scheme of things. Your inability to face information squarely and 
>>>honestly leads you to discredit whoever for whatever with misleading 
>>>statements and falsehoods. I don't mind if you are misinformed but don't 
>>>be dragging me down your slide of ignorance.
>>>
>>>
>>>You wrote this today.
>>>
>>>"The poster, James Reynolds, suggested that all persons who went
>>>through infantry training were going to end up with no feeling for
>>>their fellow man and that all persons who underwent combat
>>>situations would succumb to PTSD and be permanently disabled"
>>>
>>>Below is the complete posting from me to which you refer.
>>>
>>>(Submitted by J.R.)
>>>" The article Mr. Hansen posted this morning concerning Post Traumatic 
>>>Stress
>>>Disorder should open our eyes to the full impact of what military actions
>>>entail. A front line soldier coming back to try and fit into society gets
>>>the headlines but he is only a small part of the entire tragedy. There 
>>>are
>>>no clear cut fixes for PTSD because there has been a fundamental shift in
>>>how that soldier fits into society. He has undergone training and 
>>>situations
>>>that have reduced the fundamental sacred nature of life to its biological
>>>simplicity and the soldier's own life as worthless.
>>>
>>>If a child goes through infantry training it is taught that it is no 
>>>better
>>>than a bug and that its life is forfeit to the country. Our own boys and
>>>girls become expendable objects for our Commander-in-Chief to do with as 
>>>he
>>>pleases. This training and the final mindset is mandatory for a good 
>>>army.
>>>
>>>If we add the fact that the current war (as Vietnam) has no clear
>>>justification, no clear enemy, and no clear victories what we end up
>>>bringing home are many, many, many messed up young people.
>>>
>>>We have to put ourselves in the boots of our young soldiers. We need to
>>>think about ourselves being trained to understand our lives are nothing; 
>>>put
>>>ourselves into a foreign land surrounded by our potential killer every
>>>minute. We have to make the greatest effort to give these young people 
>>>their
>>>humanity back.
>>>
>>>A non-justified war means nothing more than a sentence of death or the 
>>>loss
>>>of humanity to our children without any benefit to the Nation. How can
>>>anyone support such a war? What is our nation becoming? We allow our
>>>children to be sent to death or destruction on the words of liars and by 
>>>the
>>>deceptions of war profiteers and then allow these same maggots to take 
>>>our
>>>money from the treasury to line their pockets while declining to allow 
>>>the
>>>best care for our young soldiers when they come back to us.
>>>(END of JR post)
>>>
>>>Where is it that I suggested what you claim?
>>>
>>>You should try thinking before you spout off. Or at least attempt 
>>>rationality when you do post.
>>>
>>>Anyone supporting the current mess in Iraq is an idiot Mr Nisbet, is that 
>>>what is really bothering you?
>>>
>>>James Reynolds
>>>Moscow
>>>
>>>
>>>>Richard
>>>>
>>>>The question was not if vets coming back from Iraq would suffer from 
>>>>PTSD, but the overall effect that it would have on vets in general.  The 
>>>>poster, James Reynolds, suggested that all persons who went through 
>>>>infantry training were going to end up with no feeling for their fellow 
>>>>man and that all persons who underwent combat situations would succumb 
>>>>to PTSD and be permanently disabled.
>>>>
>>>>The various vets on this list noted that PTSD is a serious problem but 
>>>>that the chronic form of PTSD that requires long term treatment only 
>>>>effects 30% of PTSD patients and the malady is not something that causes 
>>>>anybody to be a dangerous person or a person likely to become a street 
>>>>bum, which is the kind of thing that the ill informed seem to think.
>>>>
>>>>Your figure of 17% is extremely high.  The studies that I have seen put 
>>>>the rate at between 8-10% and that for frontline combat troops.  Since 
>>>>4% is the average in the US population and what is also typical of 
>>>>non-combat related PTSD's, the figure for Viet Nam Vets and preliminary 
>>>>figures for Iraq War vets are pretty near in sync.  There should be 
>>>>around 6000-7000 troops who will suffer chronic PTSD that will take 
>>>>treatment for many years to come.  The rest of the PTSD sufferers will 
>>>>recover within 6 months, some with treatment, but the bulk without.
>>>>
>>>>The 7000 cases of chronic PTSD will require care to the tune of $40,000 
>>>>a year per man and the vets on the list noted that they are deserving of 
>>>>disability and treatment costs just as those who are physically wounded. 
>>>>  There are no Purple Hearts for the guys who end up with PTSD, but they 
>>>>are as wounded by action as any who took a round.  Regardless of what 
>>>>any person feels about Iraq or action in the Middle East, they need to 
>>>>support the long term care for those who served.
>>>>
>>>>And critically, people need to treat all the troops returning from 
>>>>action with dignity.  The Viet Nam experience need not be repeated and 
>>>>these young troops can move more readily back into life if they are 
>>>>given respect.  That is especially true of the guys with PTSD.
>>>>
>>>>Phil Nisbet
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>From: "Richard Schmidt" <44schmidt at earthlink.net>
>>>>>To: <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>>>>>Subject: [Vision2020] PTSD
>>>>>Date: Mon, 30 Jan 2006 07:48:51 -0500
>>>>>
>>>>>Within the past couple weeks some misinformed person made the statement 
>>>>>that PTSD was not a problem with the servicemen serving in Afghanistan 
>>>>>and Iraq. Please read the article at  
>>>>>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/01/29/MNGMHGVCEV1.DTL 
>>>>>     which ends with:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Veterans and stress
>>>>>Post-traumatic stress disorder is an ailment resulting from exposure to 
>>>>>an experience involving direct or indirect threat of serious injury or 
>>>>>death. Symptoms include recurrent thoughts of a traumatic event, 
>>>>>reduced involvement in work or outside interests, hyper alertness, 
>>>>>anxiety and irritability.
>>>>>
>>>>>About 317,000 veterans diagnosed with the disorder were treated at 
>>>>>Department of Veterans Affairs medical centers and clinics in fiscal 
>>>>>year 2005. Nearly 19,000 veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan 
>>>>>were seen for the disorder in veterans' medical centers and Vet Centers 
>>>>>from fiscal year 2002 to 2005.
>>>>>
>>>>>A recent study of soldiers and Marines who had served in Iraq and 
>>>>>Afghanistan found that about 17 percent met criteria for post-traumatic 
>>>>>stress disorder, depression, or generalized anxiety disorder. Of those 
>>>>>whose responses were positive for a mental disorder, 40 percent or 
>>>>>fewer actually received help while on active duty.
>>>>>
>>>>>For more information, contact your local veterans facility, call (877) 
>>>>>222-VETS.
>>>>
>>>
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