[Vision2020] MidEastern democracy

Fri Jan 27 22:18:55 PST 2006

How smart can this guy be?  He says over/over/over "We will not negotiate 
with terrorists"...yet, this week they released the women in Iraq that have 
been incarcerated for months.  Ostensibly, they will be released with 450 
other prisoners.  In reality they are being released in order to get the 
journalist hostage released.

How can you continue to support a guy that lies through his teeth, plays 
with the budget in such a way that vets and others in need get reduced 
services while the taxes of the rich get cut, whole communities having been 
hit by disasters get little or no help to rebuild, out-sourceing of 
governmental work to other, third-world countries, continually puts people 
up for Supreme Court nominations who are closely tied with his beliefs, etc? 
  The guy is not doing this country any good.  He is too busy doing his oil 
buddies good and forgetting just who it was that put him in office - the 
people of this country.

J  :]

>From: "Pat Kraut" <pkraut at moscow.com>
>To: "vision2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] MidEastern democracy
>Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 18:15:14 -0800
>
>"America's most beloved ex-president "
>based on what is this said? Carter is an embarassment! 'Bush needs to work
>with Hamas even if they are a terriorist group' what a terrible turn of
>events that would be. I thank God that Bush is much smarter than that!
>
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <whayman at adelphia.net>
>To: "Art Deco" <deco at moscow.com>
>Cc: "Vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 1:42 PM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] MidEastern democracy
>
>
>Another take on the situation?
>
>Warren Hayman
>
>Published on Friday, January 27, 2006 by the Toronto Star
>
>Jimmy Carter's Secret Hamas Summit
>Tried to bring Hamas to table
>Summit fell apart a decade ago
>
>
>by Mitch Potter
>
>
>
>JERUSALEM - The mood was disaster-in-progress when the unflappable Jimmy
>Carter stepped into the room yesterday to share a few quiet moments with 
>the
>Toronto Star.
>The official returns were flowing in, showing a Hamas victory almost beyond
>anyone's calibration.
>
>The hard fist of political Islam didn't just enter the Palestinian
>parliament. It is the parliament.As the numbers sunk in, CNN, BBC, Sky and
>Fox went into "breaking news" mode, quickly bulking up with pundits 
>uttering
>obituaries for peace. The greening of Palestinian politics now had 
>consigned
>the region to another hopeless eternity, it seemed.At 81, clear-eyed and
>calm, America's most beloved ex-president â€” who yesterday sanctified the
>Palestinian election as head of the 950-strong international observer
>mission â€” took the earthquake in stride.With the debate turning to 
>whether
>the Palestinians' major international benefactors, the European Union and
>the United States, should allow themselves to maintain contact with a
>government led by Hamas â€” a group that has not unequivocally abandoned 
>its
>founding principle of the destruction of the state of Israel â€” Carter let 
>us
>in on a fascinating anecdote he has never spoken of publicly.Ten years ago,
>Carter himself sat dow!
>  n with Hamas in an attempt to bridge the gap between PLO chief Yasser
>Arafat and the then-fledgling militant Islamic group. As a personal favour
>to the late Palestinian leader, and in the spirit of the newly minted Oslo
>Accords, Carter went hunting for Hamas, to lasso them into the political
>process."Arafat asked me if I would contact Hamas and see if they would
>accept the new government with him as president, and to find out what their
>demands might be," Carter said.A series of meetings ensued with various
>Hamas leaders in the Israeli-occupied territories, and Carter initially
>found himself confounded by the multi-headed hydra of leadership,
>Hamas-style. But some of those he spoke to showed interest. Even 10 years
>ago, there were indications Hamas might be ready to make the great leap
>forward into reason and rationality â€” and perhaps even to accept Israel 
>as
>its legitimate partner in a future that would become two states living side
>by side.Finally, a secret summit was a!
>  rranged for Cairo involving every voice that mattered to Hamas. And ju
>st as Carter was preparing for the flight to Egypt, Hamas called it
>off."They cancelled the meeting. Either they decided no, or they decided I
>wasn't the right person. But they cancelled," said Carter."That's the way 
>it
>was then. Clearly there was no discernable person who could speak on behalf
>of Hamas and I'm not sure there is yet."Carter didn't rule out modern-day
>disaster in the 17 minutes and 29 seconds he gave the Star yesterday. But 
>he
>would like everyone to take a deep breath and consider an opposite 
>scenario.
>To his way of thinking, any notion of peace was already a political fiction
>long before Hamas came calling. Maybe, just maybe, confronted with the
>reality of responsibility, Hamas will be the one to awaken it."Firstly,
>nobody knows what will happen now. The Palestinian government just resigned
>a few minutes ago. I suspect even Hamas doesn't know," said Carter. "My
>guess is right now (Hamas) are trying to absorb the enormity of their
>unexpected victory. They are!
>   assimilating what has happened."So it means everything is in Hamas's
>hands. And how they'll deal with it is quite interesting to consider. It
>might be a healthy thing for them to have the responsibility. Ask yourself,
>`Can Hamas maintain order among their own people?' If so, that will be a
>notable achievement, and it's something Fatah has not been able or willing
>to do."Carter, the broker of peace between Israel and Egypt, has never
>really let go of this part of the world. He was here almost exactly a year
>ago, in the same capacity as chief election monitor, when Mahmoud Abbas was
>elected to succeed Arafat. On that occasion he stayed up till 4 a.m.
>reviewing the count. Then, rather than making for bed, he chose to go
>birding, rounding up his binoculars to catch the dawn on the leafy grounds
>of Hebrew University, secret service guardsmen in tow. It is unlikely he
>will be birding today. Carter is off to see Abbas one more time this
>morning, to survey what's left of the broke!
>  n pieces of Fatah.As for the death of peace hopes, Carter offered a st
>eely gaze, and unleashed a laundry list of reasons why the question is
>ridiculous. "Remember, we're not interrupting a major, successful, 
>promising
>peace process. There haven't been any peace talks for the last 3 1/2 years.
>For almost three years, the elected leader of the Palestinian people
>(Arafat) was imprisoned in two or three rooms in Ramallah and was not
>permitted to leave his office," said Carter."And then once Mahmoud Abbas 
>was
>elected a year ago, we thought this would open a fairly immediate
>opportunity for peace talks. But there haven't been any peace talks. There
>hasn't been any real effort to strengthen Abbas's international stature, or
>his economic ability to manage his government's needs or meet his people's
>needs. There hasn't been any willingness on the part of outside forces to
>equip his security people with the ability to control violence."He's been
>put into a holding pattern. So we're not interrupting a peace process by
>this election. And it may be that wh!
>  at I consider to be a stalemate could possibly be invigorated. I won't 
>say
>reinvigorated because there's no vigour there now."But if a victorious 
>Hamas
>is to take the Palestinians forward, a discernable voice must arise. Hamas
>can no longer be a multi-headed hydra, saying both yes and no to
>negotiations from its many mouths. A cohesive leadership is essential, and
>it must say what it really wants. That will require some breathing space as
>the dust over Ramallah settles, and the newly elected work toward forming a
>new government. But time is of the essence, insofar as the Palestinian
>Authority is destitute.By Carter's reckoning, the Authority will run out of
>funds to pay its workers â€” everyone from policemen to schoolteachers, at 
>the
>end of February. He's urging Western donors to find a way to work around
>their objections to Hamas and continue giving, at least until Hamas makes
>its intentions known. And he's calling on the cash-rich Arab world, now
>"inundated with oil reve!
>  nues," to step up with financing to get Palestinians through this cris
>is.Former Swedish prime minister Carl Bildt, one of Carter's colleagues in
>the mission to Jerusalem, yesterday framed the situation thus: "The motives
>for a two-state solution can be said to be even strong in a situation 
>where,
>after all, what we have asked for â€” the establishment of democracy in 
>these
>territories â€” has occurred."The fact that we got democracy functioning
>should not really be used as an argument for withdrawing our
>engagement."Carter professes no insight into whether Hamas is capable of 
>the
>challenge of leadership. But he's old enough to have seen many in this
>region make the transition from terror to power with aplomb."Despite the
>concerns expressed about the character of Hamas, we have to hope for the
>best. My prayer is the Hamas leaders, now serving in positions of
>unprecedented authority, will lead the Palestinian people on a peaceful,
>non-violent path toward a two-state solution."
>
>Copyright Toronto Star Newspapers Limited
>
>---- Art Deco <deco at moscow.com> wrote:
> > Bill,
> >
> > Good questions.
> >
> > There is only one person on this list than can give us complete, 
>decisive,
>persuasive answers to them:  Pat Kraut!
> >
> > Let 'er rip, Pat.
> >
> > W.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Bill London
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> > Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 10:05 AM
> > Subject: [Vision2020] MidEastern democracy
> >
> >
> > Anyone else notice the funny corner Bush has painted himself into?
> >
> > The Bush manifesto to enforce "democracy" in the MidEast resulted in
>American applause for the recent vote for a government in Palestine -- 
>until
>the results were in.
> >
> > When Hamas (which the Americans have long labeled a terrorist group) won
>the election, Bush rejected that democratic decision.  After rejecting the
>democratically-elected government, what now?
> >
> > The same process is happening more slowly in Iraq.  As the American 
>forces
>continue their occupation, they radicalize the Iraqi people.  The result
>will be a democratic vote to elect a radical theocratic anti-American
>government.  Then what?
> > BL
> >
> >
> > 
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------
> >
> >
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>
>_____________________________________________________
>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
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>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>
>
>_____________________________________________________
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>  serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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>           mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>

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