[Vision2020] Spying on Americans Can't Be Justified (By MollyIvins)

[roger ames]

A question for Pat Kraut,

I'm curious, is it Executive Order 12333 of Dec. 4, 1981you site in your post? If so, which provision of this executive order leads you to your belief that Bush has the right to authorize warrantless spying on U.S.citezens? 

According to the preamble of Executive Order 12333 one thing it does say, "All reasonable and lawful means must be used to ensure that the United States will receive the best intelligence available."

This executive order is very specific as to length and means to which the Intelligence Community can use to spy on U.S. citezens. "Such procedures shall protect constitutional and other legal rights and limit use of such information to lawful governmental purposes."


Please tell where in this document does it say a president can authorize searches without warrant or congressional oversight for that matter? 

Roger

link: http://www.cia.gov/cia/information/eo12333.html#3.1
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Pat Kraut 
  To: vision2020 
  Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:29 PM
  Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Spying on Americans Can't Be Justified (By MollyIvins)


  My response was not about Bush...it was about people who accept a position, collect my money regularly and then go against promises they have made to keep secrets and tell a reporter. There are channels for reporting abuse of power if someone really believes that is happening and it does not include 'leaking' info. I assure I do know what the constitution says...I teach it! And no where does it say this is right. I personally believe that Bush does have the right under special order 12333 to do this. I would have been very surprised to find out the surveillance was not happening (spying has happened in every war) and I would have joined in any impeachment proceedings if he had not ordered it! I believe the NYT has endangered all our lives by letting our enemies know about this and they should be tried for treason. 

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Tom Hansen 
    To: 'Pat Kraut' ; 'vision2020' 
    Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:21 PM
    Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Spying on Americans Can't Be Justified (By MollyIvins)


    Hint for Ms. Kraut:

     

    Don't wait for the movie.  Read the book.  It is entitled "The Constitution of the United States of America".

     

    There is a short preview:

     

    Amendment IV

     

    "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

     

    You will notice, Ms. Kraut, that ABOSOLUTELY NOWHERE in the 4th Amendment do you read the words "Unless George Bush says differently".

     

    "Patriotism is not a short and frenzied outburst of emotion but the tranquil and steady dedication of a lifetime." 

    --Adlai E. Stevenson, Jr.


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    From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Pat Kraut
    Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 5:04 PM
    To: vision2020
    Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Spying on Americans Can't Be Justified (By MollyIvins)

     

      Bush cannot trust the people who are supposed to be keeping his warrants secret. Someone at NSA is a very dishonest person and has no sense of morals. So, he in order to keep us safe must do it without them or do you not remember 9/11. It makes a serious difference to our safety. Molly Ivins has made her name slamming Bush and I would expect the world to stop spinning if she had anything good to say about him. She is unbelievable. 
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