[Vision2020] 02-25-06 LA Times: Trust the truth

[J Ford]

Nice!

"An fear níos mó aineolach nó séan, an fear níos mó leanúnach tú ceadaigh."

"The more your ignore or deny, the more it is allowed to continue."



J  :]




>From: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
>To: chasuk at gmail.com
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 02-25-06 LA Times: Trust the truth
>Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 21:55:22 -0800
>
>Chas
>
>The raving Neo-Nazi crowd are already stoked, so jailing Irving does no 
>additional harm.  They would skin you or I in a heart beat.
>
>Irving definately knew.  Example, he suggested that no Zyklon B was ever 
>used at Auschwitz, though we have the direct testimony of SS people that 
>they did indeed use Zyklon B in the gas chambers.  He was then provided 
>with chemical analysis of the concrete from the ceiling of the chambers 
>that showed cyanide build up and still made the statement that no people 
>were ever gassed at Auschwitz.
>
>YOu ask who this sort of thing hurts?  I did mention the people who 
>survived and for that matter the kin of the survivors.  How much do you 
>think that it hurts for a person who survived the death camps to be called 
>a liar and told that the slaughter of their families was a fiction?  How 
>much do you think it hurts somebdoy like Joan, who never had the joy of her 
>father's side of her family, to have a person claim that they probably just 
>moved someplace else?
>
>Irving was saying that the Holocaust did not exist and that it was all a 
>Jewish Plot.  He sold tens of thousands of copies of his books to Neo-Nazis 
>and to Arab governments.  He wrote this weacked out history of his to sell 
>books.  He also got paid to speak at various functions, with pretty nice 
>speakers fees attached to those engagements.
>
>Thats why I suggested, his actions were money based, had called others who 
>were actually there liars by claiming that what they physically saw with 
>their own eyes a plot and that it had caused emotional pain and suffering 
>to victims and their families.  Even at his trail, when he finally faced 
>the potential that he would have to do time, Iriving tried to slither out 
>of it by finally acknowledging that he was 'wrong' and that there had been 
>a Holocaust.  That pretty well tells you he knew all along that he was 
>lying, just spreading the BS for the money he made on his books and 
>speeches.  That takes the idea that he was a deranged asshole back to him 
>simply being a greedy asshole.
>
>Phil Nisbet
>
>
>>From: Chasuk <chasuk at gmail.com>
>>To: "Phil Nisbet" <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com>
>>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] 02-25-06 LA Times: Trust the truth
>>Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 21:19:50 -0800
>>
>>On 2/25/06, Phil Nisbet <pcnisbet1 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Slander and liable are not free speech.
>>
>>Slander, as I understand it, is making a false statement that injures
>>someone's reputation.  Whose reputation did Irving damage other than
>>his own?
>>
>> >  Knowingly making false statements with the intent to mislead is also 
>>chargeable.
>>
>>What if Irving genuinely believed what he claimed?
>>
>> > Irving knew that his statements were false.  He used his statements to 
>>sell
>> > a product.  The product he sold caused material harm to victims of the
>> > crimes he claimed were lying about their experiances.   His product had 
>>and
>> > has serious potential to cause additional harm.
>>
>>I believe that Irving is a nutter, but I don't know, inarguably, that
>>he made his claims purely as a means of profiteering.  There are
>>sincere UFOnauts and Big Foot aficionados and even poor deluded souls
>>who believe they have been anally intruded by sinister ET's, so any
>>belief, no mater how ludicrous, is probably held by someone.  How,
>>exactly, did his victims suffered material harm?
>>
>> > I am not sure that this makes him a martyr to anybody who is not 
>>already a raving Nazi
>> > lying sack of crap anyway.
>>
>>You have made my point.  It is precisely the "raving Nazi lying
>>sack[s] of crap" whom we should fear.  The Austrians have merely
>>stoked the bonfires of these madmen.  Is that really advisable?
>
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